quote:

Originally posted by 442OLDS:
I saw some comments on Facebook over the weekend that said how tough the Spring Fling was.There were comments like you would not win a round if your package was worse than .005.

utter bullshyt

The toughest racing I have ever seen was at LEMENS very on DRR at HUNTSVILLE.....015 total or better I say was the norm.....

that's what's needed most rounds to go deep at most races today but that's a long way from needing a .005 package to advance.

.015 total and better will win you a lot of rounds and races.

Whomp is correct. Huntsville will either make you better or make you quit. Accutime, TT, Andy, Bones and myself worked very hard on making it very tight. Also Alex the track guru is very experienced at prepping a track. Been there since he was a kid.

don't get me wrong here. I strive to be 015 or better every run. sometimes I am and sometimes I am not. and I agree with 1290 that 015 will win a lot of rounds. but pulling in the lanes right is 90% of going deep. you can have a pair on the starting line and a 5 pack is no good and the two in the water one of them will win with a 30 pack. it is all about the luck of the draw and making consistently good runs.

and it seems some folks know how to pull in the lanes right every week. so I think I will let them drive my car to the lanes and I will take it from there.

ep

quote:

Originally posted by 442OLDS:
I saw some comments on Facebook over the weekend that said how tough the Spring Fling was.There were comments like you would not win a round if your package was worse than .005.
Now don't get me wrong( I doubt I would win a round),but I just looked at the results on Dragstory.com and there were several rounds won with teen lights.If these tree sensing devices are being used,are they being used on every run by the people that have them?

You cant possibly believe that lol

quote:

Originally posted by 442OLDS:
I saw some comments on Facebook over the weekend that said how tough the Spring Fling was.There were comments like you would not win a round if your package was worse than .005.
Now don't get me wrong( I doubt I would win a round),but I just looked at the results on Dragstory.com and there were several rounds won with teen lights.If these tree sensing devices are being used,are they being used on every run by the people that have them?

It's been a 15 total game since the 1990's.

When you get a bunch of racers together who let go of the button just about equally well, on smooth as glass well prepped tracks, a lot of it becomes how you pull in the lanes and if you can avoid that unlucky round -001 red or 001 under, so it's how you pull in the lanes.

This is 2009 I'm going 45 every round I pull in the lanes next to a guy I built his trans and engine i race with local, he about ran over the tree a couple rounds earlier in the left lane, running the left the same as I so we could avoid each other. This is his first pass down the right. I didn't avoid the unlucky round and lost. If you're competitive this is usually how you lose big money racing. I think he either won or runner'd up. It's just how it goes, ya need a little luck.

Agreed Mike!

No place tougher than Huntsville...can't believe it till ya race it. I have lost many times with 15 total or less in Huntsville.

Any new news to share Scott?

I think most of the guys that are super competitive are looking at themselves doing a personal inventory of their own program if they can't be 015 or better total, I know I was. It's been that game since the 1990's even at the local level. I can't speak for anyone else but when rumors from others of cheating circulated, I didn't care because I'm gonna be 015 total or better and look - 030 or better down track, so if they can get in on that more power to them. I didn't figure it was ever beneficial I be concerned about that. We raced every Friday so the food on the plate was a smorgasbord, it was only a matter of time to get paid.

Ya gotta feel for the weak who'd cheat though. They must be a special breed to take credit for something they didn't earn, when it's so much more gratifying honing drag racing skills and winning right.

I knew most of the top guys, I can't see them being concerned about it BUT with all the millions at stake these days, it only makes sense for love of money is the root of all evil. The special breed is put on notice if they decide to take that approach, they will get caught.

For anyone who has the idea everyone has to be cheating to lay down tight totals. Tight total 015 or better total is nothing new.

This has to be like 2001, how long has this board been in existence? I remember a guy from this board coming up to me after this race saying I've never seen a guy so slow, not in the gas at the finish line all race, going dead on every pass. Tight Super Pro racing has been in play since the 1990's. I remember racing both Thompson Bros in this race winning both races combined by less than 1 thousandths of a second, them guys are bad hombre's for years. Out of the gas was the only way to do it. None of this stuff is new, and anyone can do it, if they want to work at it. If I could with a street car on a 10" tire, anyone can. There's no reason to cheat.

I know this is the nature of this conversation, but here are 8 pages about something that there has never been one proven incidence of, no any proof that it is or has been done. So this is so good, so hidden, that nobody nowhere has seen it? Nobody has known anyone that asked for help figuring it out? Nobody got their butt hurt in a divorce, or a broken friendship and spilled the beans about it? Have all the witnesses been Hillaried?

The more we focus on this stuff, the less we focus on our own stuff. If you personally have enormous suspicion that you are losing rounds regularly because others cheat or are out to cheat you, then prove it! Prove that it can be done. Prove that it is being done. Come to the conversation with something. The last thing we need in racing is more divisiveness. And please do not PM me with I saw this or that. If you saw it, tell everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
I know this is the nature of this conversation, but here are 8 pages about something that there has never been one proven incidence of, no any proof that it is or has been done. So this is so good, so hidden, that nobody nowhere has seen it? Nobody has known anyone that asked for help figuring it out? Nobody got their butt hurt in a divorce, or a broken friendship and spilled the beans about it? Have all the witnesses been Hillaried?

The more we focus on this stuff, the less we focus on our own stuff. If you personally have enormous suspicion that you are losing rounds regularly because others cheat or are out to cheat you, then prove it! Prove that it can be done. Prove that it is being done. Come to the conversation with something. The last thing we need in racing is more divisiveness. And please do not PM me with I saw this or that. If you saw it, tell everyone.

That's like saying the conscious common sense understanding of the Bible verse; for the love of money is the root of all evil, is divisive.

It's not divisive, nor is it uncomfortable to take into consideration for the reasons I have already explained. People who can win can be 015 or better total at will. It's been like this since the 1990's I know of.

Meaning hypothetically if you are cheating, it doesn't mean you're winning.

If you're cheating, how tight are you willing to set up the illegal gizmo?

If you're not cheating, there's no limits on how tight you're willing to set up the legal gizmo.

Now if the house is stacking cards in favor of certain people, all bets are off.

That's an easy way to F up a good thing.

Look at the state of America currently.

For the love of money and power is the root of all evil.

Opportunity is equal for all. Outcomes are not guaranteed.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
Opportunity is equal for all. Outcomes are not guaranteed.

Same apply's for cheating. Anyone or everyone can choose to cheat, outcomes - repercussions vary.

This holds true not only for drag racing, but for life in general.

We're all on the honor system, problem is some have no honor.

When cheating is allowed or overlooked, freedom diminishes and tyranny rises.

As we get further along on this discussion, I look at things that have been implemented over the years.

The Christmas Tree
Then the photo cells for et and a real time winner.
Then they were tied to the Christmas Tree to make sure racers didn't leave before the green light.
Then reaction times were put in place to let the racers and officials know how early the racer left prior to the green.
Guard Beams to prevent false ETs.

along with measures like Stage Lock and True Start to make the playing fields more equal.

I don't think people looked at these things as a tools to eliminate cheating but more so to create a level playing field.

Since technology has moved forward to where we are today, it only makes sense to provide a preventative measure to eliminate the sensing of the christmas tree in which I'd think most everyone would be in favor of except those who are looking to exploit the system.

Stay Tuned!

It's only in the institutions best interest to insure the integrity of the competition on the track.

The only cheating that is insurmountable, is if the institution itself is stacking the deck for certain people, for whatever reason.

That's a good way to F up a good thing. It's fraud.

We're all on the honor system. Problem is some have no honor.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,

When are we going to start pulling the front wheels, control arms etc off racecars during inspections and looking for wires and sensors up there?

I would bet tree reading devices are much less common than a a wheel speed sensor that can send data back into the car in real time!

Those devices you mentioned won’t help if you can’t hit the tree.

quote:

Originally posted by ferndaleflyer:
Those devices you mentioned won’t help if you can’t hit the tree.

Think of it from the institutions position, obviously the institution has a good thing going big money Super Pro bracket racing right? With the institution being the promoters.

The biggest threat for the institution, is an individual who is cheating, slipping through the cracks and winning a lot of money.

This would tarnish future considerations of new skin in the game, as well as existing skin in the game.

This is why measures are being taken ahead of time now, to insure this doesn't happen.

quote:

Originally posted by ferndaleflyer:
Those devices you mentioned won’t help if you can’t hit the tree.

I disagree with your statement. These devices are being used to aid the racer into being able to make the car go dead on and keeping that side of their package very tight. So in theory as long as I can be 20 or better my package can be 30 or better every lap. While those types of packages are very common these days it definitely increases their odds of winning. Whether you want to believe it or not there is ALOT of these devices still running around even everyone says its "90s technology".

Another rumor I hear is that you can send your grid to a certain former track manager who is very well known around the racing community and he will make the ARC function completely undetectable when you plug in and check for ARC detection. Who in the race track tech world is smart enough to figure when and how that is being done?? ill answer that for you and that would be not a single one.