quote:

Originally posted by Michael Beard:

quote:

Originally posted by Rookieman:
All the problems at Dragway 42 with the silver bullet was caused by the house car policy.

That's quite an accusation. But please, go on and tell us more about how a Jegs car is a house car at a Summit race. LOL That's fascinating. You should let the promoters know that they had house cars. They'd probably be very interested to find that out!

quote:

you would not win a round if your package was worse than .005.

[IMG] at HUNTSVILLE.....015 total or better I say was the norm.....[/IMG]

Do people ever actually read the results? THIS is part of the problem, when people come up with this off-the-wall, "Well I heard!" BS. I glanced back at one of the DRR race days, and found 63 packages .015 or better (actually included several that were technically over .015 if you added the 4th digits). Only 4 of them were losing runs. Total runs: 469, so you're looking at 13.4% of the runs is apparently "everybody does this all the time". LOL Is it hyper competitive? Absolutely. But people are WAY overstating the case. People only pay attention to the good runs, so that's what they remember.

Spring Fling GALOT 100K race...
12 .005 or better packages out of 891 runs: 1%
81 .015 or better packages out of 891 runs: 9%

Yup! You've gotta be 5 pack or better, or don't leave the house! LOL

That's kinda like the stats MSM give on corona virus when they say 50 million people are infected and leave out the stat only 50,000 fatalities.

Ok, so 015 total is a low percentage. If the topic is cheating this stat only validates the fact any given illegal gizmo doesn't need to be adjusted trip zip, in order to be successful. Which only makes the illegal gizmo harder to detect, in the paper trail.

The idea here isn't that cheating CAN'T be done, and hasn't nor isn't ever done. Like you mentioned, people DO die from Corona. There is no arguing that. But how prevalent is the problem? How much do you invest in time, effort and money, not to mention the dilution of your focus, to solve a big problem that affects very very few?
Maybe we should start buying money race insurance?

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
The idea here isn't that cheating CAN'T be done, and hasn't nor isn't ever done. Like you mentioned, people DO die from Corona. There is no arguing that. But how prevalent is the problem? How much do you invest in time, effort and money, not to mention the dilution of your focus, to solve a big problem that affects very very few?
Maybe we should start buying money race insurance?

I'm not arguing for or against anything. My point is on topic.

If 015 total accounts for a low percentage of winnings, any would be illegal gizmo doesn't require being set up trip zip to be effective.

This will make them more difficult to detect, in the paper trail. Common sense.

The paper trail is the run sheets, if you're struggling with that portion of my reply.

Alright! That's it! Anybody that's .025-.030 pack is CHEATING! LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Beard:
Alright! That's it! Anybody that's .025-.030 pack is CHEATING! LOL

If illegal gizmo's were made legal Super Pro, in two years from now what would be the margins of victory?

Have you considered any of this, or just all emotional based responses?

I love Mr. Beards statistical approach but something just doesnt seem fair this season for me.
I have entered 10 races so far and 6 times I have been beaten by a package of .015 or better. Now, I dont want to disrespect any racer but last week a motorcycle threw .008 total at me 1st rd!
Someone above mentioned its how you pull into the lanes.... I agree

quote:

Originally posted by 27Keith:
I love Mr. Beards statistical approach but something just doesnt seem fair this season for me.
I have entered 10 races so far and 6 times I have been beaten by a package of .015 or better. Now, I dont want to disrespect any racer but last week a motorcycle threw .008 total at me 1st rd!
Someone above mentioned its how you pull into the lanes.... I agree

It is how you pull in the lanes. Once they all figure out you can be 015 total or better at will, when you pull up at the head of the staging lanes. They all pull up behind you.

When your brother whose never been to the drag strip notices it. You know you got em right where you want them.

That's about the time the track officials turn on you too though, so beware of that! It ain't all it's made out to be, trust me.

You are right about that . Many yrs ago when I ran mo box stuff, we were called to 4 lanes. I was first one in line and had 19 cars directly behind me. Several cars made laps around the concession stand waiting on someone to pull down behind me.

quote:

Originally posted by 27Keith:
You are right about that . Many yrs ago when I ran mo box stuff, we were called to 4 lanes. I was first one in line and had 19 cars directly behind me. Several cars made laps around the concession stand waiting on someone to pull down behind me.

It's astonishing isn't it? We used to have a guy drove a little 66 Chevy II small tire car in Super Pro local and he'd be the pied piper won like three weeks straight, You Get No Change was the name of his car, bad dude won all the time. Art Malone owned Sunshine at the time and the staging lanes were all F'd up so Art puts a bounty on the guy, there was no buy backs back then and he's at the front of the lane with everyone behind him. I look up there and say to myself I'm gonna go get that $100 bounty.

And I did. It fixed the lanes according to Art Malone.

You always wanna be the one to pull up on that guy, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

You learn more in a race like that than you will in 100 rds. Because you learn you can win any race, any time, any where.

You don't wanna pass up that learning opportunity.

You wanna be the guy racing up there for that opportunity.

I don't doubt that there is some may be cheating, if you are any kind of a decent bracket racer you should be able to look at your ticket and figure out how you won and got beat, accusing people of cheating without proof is actually so wrong. Ten pages here and not one piece of evidence of anyone cheating.

I heard there is a book coming out called "The Track Where it Happened".

It discloses all of the cheating and will be available on Amazon for $19.95.Authored by John Bolton.

quote:

Originally posted by coop5140:
I don't doubt that there is some may be cheating, if you are any kind of a decent bracket racer you should be able to look at your ticket and figure out how you won and got beat, accusing people of cheating without proof is actually so wrong. Ten pages here and not one piece of evidence of anyone cheating.

But now, doesn't everyone deserve a trophy?

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

Originally posted by coop5140:
I don't doubt that there is some may be cheating, if you are any kind of a decent bracket racer you should be able to look at your ticket and figure out how you won and got beat, accusing people of cheating without proof is actually so wrong. Ten pages here and not one piece of evidence of anyone cheating.

But now, doesn't everyone deserve a trophy?

You haven't ever been sitting around in between rounds listening to 10 - 15 racers discussing all the different ways they know of people cheat? I have, and couple dudes sitting around have won the million.

That's all this is, nobody is naming names.

An example of everyone gets a trophy is when a trophy is handed out by the institution to someone who didn't earn it.

Anyone handed a trophy or winnings they didn't earn is on the honor system too, BTW.

If you accept it knowing you didn't earn it, you're accepting a handout. Nothing wrong with handouts, if you're in need of charity.

The problem with free handouts in drag racing is the production of those who do produce is redistributed to those who don't.

Liberal credo. "You didn't do that" - Obama

When I lose it’s normally because of the dumb-a-z-z that’s driving my car.

quote:

Originally posted by Cashflow:
When I lose it’s normally because of the dumb-a-z-z that’s driving my car.

Here's a mind bender for ya.

Do drag races decide drag races, or do track officials decide drag races?

This has been quite a novel to read, 10 pages so far. Some interesting stuff, some thought-provoking stuff, plenty of speculation, (which every discussion on cheating is bound to include). I've seen some stuff at the track that really made me wonder sometimes, and the House Car deal, I have seen it blatantly in effect at a couple of podunk tracks, I once beat the homey / track operator's nephew 4th Rd, and got a "white" (winning) time slip with "DQ" scrawled on it, because I didn't have a tail light on, (at early dusk, still very light out). Several locals quickly told me of similar ways they "had lost" to the same guy, but I don't consider that the same as a "house car" one might find at a big $$ race, more like just some Bogus BS. I've also had days where I amazed myself, (and got accused of "cheating" by several opponents), after foot-braking my way through 7 rounds with a worst light of .011. (I woke up that day feeling different, not necessarily "knowing" I would win, but I guess as close as you could get to it. Wish I could bottle whatever it was, only have had 2 other days like that in the past 24 years).
As for the OP topic - 20+ years ago, a long-time track owner who had also been racing since the 50's, and worked the starting line at his own track for decades, told me of 2 particular S/P racers that routinely met in the final round, and how he had noticed what looked like red laser dots moving around on the tree and the top yellow bulb. This was before cellphones, bluetooth, digital cameras, etc. He didn't understand it, but he thought they were cheating. He just didn't know what to do about it, he couldn't position someone standing at the tree. His track always raced at night, and had really poor lighting at the start line area. So no, I am not speculating, I am reading this with interest. I absolutely am certain the tech does exist to do what some are saying. I also think there are some damn good racers who have "magic days" like I've had, but much more often. (I am almost always aiming for a 10-20 light, hoping to split that to a 15, and I can usually string 2, 3, or 4 together, then do something stupid like our last race, go .0003 red against .070).
A friend and multi-time division champ recently shared timeslips of 4 consecutive rounds where his opponents were trip-zips. So yeah, I do believe in the "pulling into the lanes right" theory, and also if you're really good, they are gonna throw their best at you. Sometimes that gets you a free pass when they try too hard, other times the window they toss you is too small to fit through.
I applaud Scott for proactively taking steps to head off any potential "monkey business".

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FootbrakeJim,

This reminds me of the mid to late 80's when Jeff Taylor was kicking butt. D1 tech pulled his SS car apart on the return road of Delmar or MIR when he was allegedly leaving on the top bulb or triggering off the tree. They found nothing.

All these guys on the professional big dollar tour can hit the tree .015 or better 95 out of 100 times or they would have regular jobs.

Manipulating the MSD Grid or similar ignition is another story. Done properly, just about anything can run within .01.

Just because a small # of cars post .015 packs does not mean they were not on one. How many pairs both run wide open to the finish line? Darn few.

At some point a lot of these guys filling the pot are going to realize they would be better off taking their $3K in entry fees and sit at the Million dollar slot machine in Vegas or AC.