What time did they get done Saturday nite? I left at 12:15 and second round was being called. Trub

Second round at 12:15 am on a beautiful day like yesterday,sure glad it was moving day for me so I couldn't come.

Bill, I left at about 9:30...it was way past my bedtime.

Kyle called me at 12:10AM, he was still in but decided to just load up and leave. He told me they had just called the buy backs to the lanes, and had decided to finish the race as an eighth miler. Personally, I have issues with the whole buy back concept, and one of the issues is that it drags the whole program out, but that's another discussion.

He made his last run on Friday night (or Sat morning) at 1:43AM...he was in the late rounds.

I don't mean to criticize anyone....Greg is a good guy, and works hard. The whole crew up there are good guys and the facility itself is as nice as anywhere we run. For me personally, though, it gets pretty frustrating to race there at times.....that's why I don't go there much. Maybe I'm old and cranky, but leaving the house at 11AM on Saturday and getting hope at midnight is just a bit much.

I realize they have some problems other places don't have....namely, they have a higher car count than most places so that complicates things. This race is especially so.

But, I do think they could help themselves a lot by sticking to the schedule. Start on time. Run Eliminations on time. Put the onus on the racers to be ready....if your not ready, you're out. No exceptions.

Sometimes things happen...oil downs and the such...that have to be worked around. I understand that. But, it can be done.....other places do it. Talk to them, see how they do it.

Anyway, please take this without any rancor, as I don't mean it to be insulting to anyone. It's just my two cents......the viewpoints of a geezer that has been doing this for forty some odd years.

leaving the house at 11 and getting home at midnite, really, that is too much for you, i understand your frustration but i wouldn't mind that at all. try running norwalk. if you want a spot with power you need to be there on fri nite. if you just want a decent spot without power u still need to roll in between 8-8:30 and then only two time shots if there are no oil downs, and if you go 3 rnds you will not be home by midnite. and no buy backs. i would love a place you didnt have to be somwhere until 11 and still get home at midnite. and yes i do like buybacks. because if you are there all day and you screw up or go red now you do have another shot with out the gas money of towing anywhere.


not trying to argue with you, just showing that the grass is not greener on the other side. and to be careful what you wish for, cause now some of those same guys that were wishing for what you would like now have seen there nearby tracks closed. just a thought!!!

Not looking for an argument...just stating some observations. I've been doing this a long, long, time. I also know there is a LOT of race cars in the Pittsburgh area sitting in garages, and that tow elsewhere to race; the length of the program seems to be a common theme as to why.

As far as buy backs, that is my opinion. No other sport has a re-entry into the main program, and, to me, there is something repulsive about having to beat the same guy twice to win. They don't have them in any other form of racing. I think they drag out the program for a couple of extra hours, and are the reason a lot of guys' families aren't involved as in the old days. With some exceptions, the wife doesn't want to be there for a marathon, and if she doesn't, eventually you're going lose a racer.

As far as seeing the place close, I don't know that it is an issue, but I would be upset....but I do know that there is a lot of other drag racing programs that could draw cars to PRP, that are successful elsewhere. Bracket racing is a part of the sport, but not all of it. These are just observations on my part, I am not a hard core bracket racer anymore, nor do I intend to be. I do this to have fun....if I want to get aggravated I'll go to work. I've been around for a long time, and long since given up the thought of "making money" at doing this. I do it because I love it.

Perhaps what I am saying is generational....I'm just stating what I see and hear. I wish no one any rancor....take it for what it's worth.

I think when a race is running that far behind that they need to eliminate buybacks. Heck you had today to try again if you messed up.

I didn't mean for this discussion to be solely about buy backs. I have my opinion of them, as stated previously.

I'm just make some observations. I think a lot of the problem can be taken care of by having a disciplined schedule. There will be exceptions, of course, but starting on time, every time, would help a whole bunch.

Greg works hard...as does his entire crew. This is in no way a criticism of them. But, although I am no longer a weekly racer, I talk to a lot who are. I know complaints are a way of life, and you can't make everybody happy, but this seems to be a universal complaint. I'm just suggesting they may want to address this over the winter.

I guess saying the "R-word" counts now too.

Steve, I have to agree 100% with your intelligent observations. I truly believe "buy backs", second chance, or what ever you may call them - STINK.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE RUNNING POINTS!!!! Why do I have to beat you twice to make you go home? Do golfers, or football players, or INDY DRIVERS get a buy back? As far as the comment about being on time - BRAVO. I make the effort to get to the track on time to get my time trial (cause I really need them Cause I am old and my 'scumaro is old!!) so why do the people who show up late get a courtesy time trial and delay the program??
I am a huge Greg fan, I worked at the track for Frank and love all the hard working people, but there ARE correctable situations that will make the track better for everyone. Personally I can't stand Bill Bader and I believe he gave Michael T a raft of crap about how to run a racetrack, and I would rather drive to Maple Grove than to give Norwalk a nickel...but that is my opinion. PRP is a thousand times more racer friendly than Norwalk can ever be, and PRP is having some growing pains. The simple truth of any business is Treat The Customer Fairly and Honestly, Follow the Rules that YOU have set forth, and They Will Come. Please stop treating us like we are stupid or that you are the only game in town. We are anxious and willing to show up and give you our money- with a smile. YaYa Joan

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Reasbeck:
I didn't mean for this discussion to be solely about buy backs. I have my opinion of them, as stated previously.

I'm just make some observations. I think a lot of the problem can be taken care of by having a disciplined schedule. There will be exceptions, of course, but starting on time, every time, would help a whole bunch.

Greg works hard...as does his entire crew. This is in no way a criticism of them. But, although I am no longer a weekly racer, I talk to a lot who are. I know complaints are a way of life, and you can't make everybody happy, but this seems to be a universal complaint. I'm just suggesting they may want to address this over the winter.

I just want to say that I think Chuck is great on the mic. Dude, you need to get out of that cutlass and stay in the tower.

Steve, I know that part of the reason for the late start times is that because employees were calling off and not coming to work. Three on Friday and four on Saturday. And some of them didn't even have the courtesy to call. So, that leaves Greg scramling to fill positions in the morning. Hope this helps a little.

Speaking of sticking to the schedule I would like it if the track advertises that the race as 1/4 mile than it should stick to 1/4 mile. Me personally, if I see an event that is advertised as 1/8 mile I'll skip it and go someplace else. Which is why I don't do the Norwalk Halloween Classic anymore. Which stinks too, because I always liked that event. But I digress...

Now if safety is an issue, ok I understand that. Although considering I'm going 90mph by the 1/8 and I'm only a low 11 sec car I can see a lot of guys in mod and top having problems by the 1/8 if there is an issue there. If moisture is more of a problem down track because of the chronic drainage issue then that should just be fixed for safety in the first place.

I'm starting to see 1/8 mile more and more prevent with PRP's program and I'm not a fan. Switching to 1/8 halfway through a program is a bad precedent as it looks to me. BTW, this is not a complaint. Just a request for the track to be clear on what they are going to run.

After reading the posts on here about the weekends event, there were a bunch of little things that happened over the weekend but that was to be expected. As you know greg will never reply so here is some info to the postings.

Tony was right as some key employees decided not to show up for work nor called to say they would not be there. At most race tracks scrambling to find help for a long days work is not easy to do at the last minute. That's why you witnessed greg in the waterbox, calling car numbers and even running the computer at times all weekend. Chuck had to help out announcing as they pulled the other announcer to call cars.. great job Chuck... The other main reason for the late start on friday was because of the Line to get into the track. Yes the gates did open early but when you have traffic backed out on to rt 22 its a safety concern plus the state police is none too happy that you create a traffic mess on 22 and can fine the track. So they had to wait till the line was down which meant some key employees were helping at the gates ect. In a way it was a plus that the track was having that strong of a turnout, but also bad in that it delayed the start. Could you imagine trying to come to the staging lanes with all the trailers trying to come in and park it would have been worse than rush hour on the parkway going to a steelers game.

So greg will have notes for next years GGG event to open that gates even earlier and that should fix a few of the above issues.

As for the 1/4 vs 1/8 i am all for 1/4 mile racing. Keith is right if the track is preped correctly we should be running 1/4 mile. But with that said when the change happened saturday it was because of the dew coming in, they have to look at it from a safety issue. The track was in perfect shape for 1/4 mile but as someone mentioned the shutdown was not. One it is not prepped and there were many reports from racers saying it was slippy on the topend and getting worse as the night went on and witnessed by track employees. Its better to be safe than sorry and be alive able to race another day. Sundays freak rain storm soaked everything and already put a delay of 2 hours plus on the event. So they made the decision to go 1/8 mile as it would have taken another hour to dry the shutdown area.

This was the best GGG event PRP has ever had and the weekend turn out of racers and fans was amazing. The costume contest saturday night was a huge hit and double the size of last year for the kids. How do you pick a winner in a contest like that.

Like in any business when events grow so do the issues that come up but that's just part of doing business and they will learn and make adjustments for next year and it will even be better.

One last thing, as for the buy backs, for a big event like this it was advertised all over so they had to keep them in the schedule. There will always be pros and cons to buyback but greg was trying to keep to what was posted and left them in for this event. From what i saw alot of people must like them as there was a bunch in each class that bought back even in Jrs on Sat and sunday.

Hope that gives information to some of the issue that came up. It always best to have the facts then guess what was going on and getting frustrated or disappointed for the wrong reasons but at the time its going on you really can't announce that over the PA.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Turk,

I know the same thing happened at the Nostalgia event....several workers did call off. That makes it tough on everyone.

I also know that good help is really, really, hard to come by these days. I know what a lot of employers go through, and it would drive me crazy. I work for the Dept of Labor & Industry and hear it all the time. Just an idea...I don't know how feasable it it....but maybe work with Wyotech to get some employees? Perhaps some extra credit in their studies or something? My son Kevin went there, and they are super, super tough about showing up for work and class, it's a deal they emphasize a whole lot. Maybe something could be worked out with them? I don't know, but maybe it's worth checking out.

Like I say....open the gates earlier, be ready to go on schedule, stick to it, and that will take care of a lot of it. Put the pressure on the racers to be ready.

I enjoyed watching the trick or treaters on Saturday as much as I enjoyed anything, frankly. I am a real fan of kids....I work with kids in our parish and kids keep you young!

Glenn and Joan: It is nice to know that I am not alone in my opinion of buy-backs. Not that I'm looking at the past with rose colored glasses, but we never, ever had them back in the old days and we all still survived. There is no way a racer should have to beat the same guy twice to win. I just can't see it.

PRP is our home track we are avid supporters of the track, passing out flyer for the major races, passing the word and trying to bring in new racers and spectators as much as we can, That being said we also are quick to voice our likes and dislikes and more than once it has gotten us on the bad side of management but in the end all was forgiven! Here are my observations from my point of view and from hearing the thoughts of others!
Mother nature is cruel and weather men well how do the keep their jobs?
Prp has been called out on more than one occasion for calling a race based on the weather forecast when the day turned out beautiful and it is a 2 edge sword, DO you let people drive from far away when the forecast looks bad only to cancel when they pull in the gate or do you play it safe?? If any of you are capable of ACCURATELY predicting the weather I am sure PRP would be glad to put you on staff and pay you well for your services

Start Time: The regular season start time move was a MAJOR boo-boo, Gates open at 9:00 Time Trials at 10:00 makes a whole lot more sense, for those of you that stated the late start gives you time to do stuff I say This, if you can race till 1 am because of the late start then you probably aren't working sunday so do your stuff on sunday!

Changes, Modifications ect! This has been a major grumbling point this year, Do Not change things as you go unless it is a safety factor, Changing the points format mid season was a MAJOR brain ****, Advertising Races with a stated payback then changing it because of a low car count is a big no-no, If car count is a factor then state it as such!
Buy backs: Another Darwin moment, Letting people buy back into the points races affecting the outcome was not well thought out!!! The second chance races need to come back as it still gives those that lost a chance to race some more making the trip worthwhile!!!!!!

The ever lovin Cards! Get rid of the card drawing! Be professionals! If the runs are entered into the BRACKET program as it happens it take 30 seconds to spit out the results, gather drivers tell them who they are running in 5 mins you are ready to go, THis way reaction times actually mean something, If it spits out a bye run for somebody more than once during a race so be it, thats the way the bracket program is, deal with it. you may be the one that gets 2 bye runs !!!

Big Races: Know your limitations! You should know at max how many cars you can run down the track on a given day in x amount of hours! Factor in a fudge factor for oil downs and breakage cleanups , Have pre registration for the number of cars you can handle take a few xtra and then things will run smoother!

Quit being nice!!!!! THis past weekend I heard call after call after call for cars to get into the lanes, totally absurd! Have first call and Last call block the lanes then fire em up and start em rolling, I bet if cars miss a run due to fiddle ****ing around the next time they will be johnny on the spot!

All of the above will make prp a fun place to race, nobody even the hard core racers wants to sit waiting 3-7 hours for their next run, nobody wants to go to a race expecting a certain payout, a certain set of rules, or a program that is stated in a certain way only to find out it has changed for no logical or common sense reason!

As far as the employee thing I feel your pain, we go through the same thing and our solution is Hire older people! They show up for work, do their jobs and are dependable, they may not be as fast as the young ones but they are not part of the I am entitled generation and actually value a job and a paycheck!

In closing Prp shows growing pains which is a good thing, Now Adapt Overcome and stabilize !!!!!

Here's a poll question for everyone that raced this past weekend. What do you think about this? Only one time run on saturday instead of two. I'd be fine with that. It would definitly end the day earlier. What say you?

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Reasbeck:
I know the same thing happened at the Nostalgia event....several workers did call off. That makes it tough on everyone.

I also know that good help is really, really, hard to come by these days. I know what a lot of employers go through, and it would drive me crazy. I work for the Dept of Labor & Industry and hear it all the time. Just an idea...I don't know how feasable it it....but maybe work with Wyotech to get some employees? Perhaps some extra credit in their studies or something? My son Kevin went there, and they are super, super tough about showing up for work and class, it's a deal they emphasize a whole lot. Maybe something could be worked out with them? I don't know, but maybe it's worth checking out.

Like I say....open the gates earlier, be ready to go on schedule, stick to it, and that will take care of a lot of it. Put the pressure on the racers to be ready.

I enjoyed watching the trick or treaters on Saturday as much as I enjoyed anything, frankly. I am a real fan of kids....I work with kids in our parish and kids keep you young!

Glenn and Joan: It is nice to know that I am not alone in my opinion of buy-backs. Not that I'm looking at the past with rose colored glasses, but we never, ever had them back in the old days and we all still survived. There is no way a racer should have to beat the same guy twice to win. I just can't see it.

Starting on time is always a good thing. Gotta have your employees there. They either call off or don't show up. Now your behind the 8 ball. We have had some good Wyotech employee's but for the most part they are the biggest problem. Steve, my brother is an instructor there and they have laxed there rule's simply to make more money. WE NEED RESPONSIBLE ADULTS !!! I had one kid tell me he had 12 hours in and was tired. REALLY ? I'm 3 times his age and put 15 to 20 hours in there. They said they didn't have enough people to scrape the track. I remember doing it myself till 5 in the morning several times, getting an hour of sleep then getting the track prepped. Guess i can't blame them. I shouldn't of done it either. Thats not a good way to look at things but that is how these kids think.

Buybacks are a necessity whether you like them or not. For not only the track but for the racer to have another shot at it. They just need to be run differantly and I have an idea. Steve we did have them in the old days may be you just don't remember.

As far as the 1/8 th mile issue. You don't have sex half way, you don't drive half way to work, so why would you want to run half a race ? I am going to do something I have never done. I am going to back down on this Not because I want to but because they would like me to. If we have a safety issue or a time issue then just do it and get it done. Move on. Also on the time thing, 11 in the morning and getting out of there before midnight, that would be a GREAT DAY !

I watched the car caller try to get cars pulled out of the lanes and wanted to give him a ball bat. They would'nt go when told to and wouldn't pull up. Felt bad for him and tried to help him to no avail. That I had to put on the racers.

There will always be problems and issues to deal with. What we all need to do is remember that racing is not a right. It is a gift and a privilege. We need to step back and look at what we have and be thankful for the opportunities that we have recieved thru racing. All of this of course, is just my opinion.

My memory must be getting foggy in my old age, Kieth, I don't remember the buy backs. But, I'll take your word for it. That still doesn't change my opinion, though.

It would seem to me a more equitable way to do that would be to run a separate consolation race...after the second round announce a second chance consolation race with a smaller purse and no points. That way everyone would have a chance to make some gas money, and it would be more equitable to those still n eliminations. Just a thought.

I'll also take your word about Wyotech...but when Kevin went that was a big, big deal. Responsible adults is probably the best way. A lot of the problems could be solved by sticking to the schedule, period. Kieth, when you mention getting the ball bat, I sympathize with that worker. But, it shouldn't be up to him to get them to the lanes, it should be up to the racers to get there. Shut the lanes off, whoever is in them runs, whoever is not doesn't. I agree that PRP is incredibly racer friendly, and that's great. But, the line has to be drawn somewhere...especially in an event that size.

I too am a big Greg fan....I think the guy is working hard to make it nice for everyone who races there weekly. Maybe those racers ought to cut him some slack and make his job a bit easier......

quote:

There will always be problems and issues to deal with. What we all need to do is remember that racing is not a right. It is a gift and a privilege. We need to step back and look at what we have and be thankful for the opportunities that we have recieved thru racing. All of this of course, is just my opinion.

Post of the year Keith...Your still gay though.

Be thankfull for what we have. I don't just mean the track. Stop constantly crying about stupid sh&t.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Deniker:

quote:

There will always be problems and issues to deal with. What we all need to do is remember that racing is not a right. It is a gift and a privilege. We need to step back and look at what we have and be thankful for the opportunities that we have recieved thru racing. All of this of course, is just my opinion.

Post of the year Keith...Your still gay though.

Be thankfull for what we have. I don't just mean the track. Stop constantly crying about stupid sh&t.

I second that --- and could someone just post the results so us wannabe's can follow without scrolling through cry baby boo hoos! Chuck where are you? you are the results man!