 |
 |
 |
|
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| How to pick up .15 ET | Login/Join |
DRR Sportsman |
If I remember correctly, I was able to remove 94# from my 4.90 car to pick up .06-.07. Mine was all composite body, your looks like steel so I'll bet theres a lot of weight that can be removed. The hood scoop is wort .03-.04 alone. I also optimized my ratio, picking up on the front half, which gave me another .02 or so. Theres lots of way outside of the engine to get quicker. | |||
|
| DRR Sportsman |
I have a question on the Alcohol vs Gas topic. Why is alcohol faster in lesser quality engines, but then in High end engines Gas is faster? I know the Alky gives more low end. Is it just because the better the engine is, the less it needs the help? | |||
|
DRR Top Comp |
You mentioned going to a dry sump oil system for better oil control. Makes me wonder what oil you are using? I was running 20-50 and would lose oil pressure on hard braking. Went to 10-30 and picked up about .10 in the 1/8 and the oil problem went away. I believe the thicker oil was not draining back in the pan as fast making it easier to uncover pick up on hard braking. Many think you are supposed to run 20-50 if you run alcohol. Not true bearing clearance is more important in determining what weight oil to run. A lighter oil will give you better performance as long as it is capable of lubricating properly. Also oil pan design makes a difference in oil control and performance. On my altered the full length dragster style pan was faster, held more oil and did not uncover under braking. On some motors dropping one quart out of the system will pick the car up significantly by getting crank out of the oil. Lithium batteries could help you a little or losing weight any where else. Another thing if you are running alcohol try making a pass with water temp up higher. Many think they are supposed to stage at say 160* yet on alcohol many are faster at 180* or more. On alcohol going from a carb to injection will pick you up maybe .10, it was about that on my car. A good vacuum pump may help a little if you are not already running one. Those have become almost standard equipment on any race motor now. Which brings us back to dry sump. I would not go to a dry sump but the reason they work is because. 1. They get the crank out of the oil. 2. They help pull a vacuum. May be able to pick up .04 here and .05 there to get to your goal with out going to a dry sump. https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/ "Dunning-Kruger Effect" -a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge. Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue. 4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion | |||
|
DRR Trophy |
A subject that can actually get pretty deep, but in a nut shell the more intense builds/larger cubic inch engines are limited to the capacity of alcohol/air volume they can move vs what they can use. Port injected and closer to the intake valve is better and also the way to go with those combos, although I would still lean towards gasoline as my preference in those applications. When carbureted, the air and fuel have to share the same space all the way to the cylinder. With alcohol having a 2 to 1 volume ratio of gasoline, this will choke out some of the energy source…..Air/Fuel volume. Keep in mind….most people don’t understand dyno testing or results….HP values are derived from torque, typically the alcohol will move the torque number up, although with a much narrower, peakier powerband. The Quicker of compared engines will always be the faster accelerating, wider and broader bands. If you could plot/overlay those comparisons on a time/value graph and generate the bell curve, you will see what I'm referring too. Im sure its not what you meant, but it has nothing to do with “quality”, but much more to do with the degree and intensity and CI of the particular combination. HP really comes from BTUs....the more energy created (fuel/air properly combusted) the more BTUs generated. Jerry Kathe | |||
|
| DRR Top Comp |
One other thing I am a firm believer in is getting a good tune up on the dyno. The key there is a good Dyno Dude. I use Centex dyno in Central Texas, Joe there is sharp and has been a HUGE help and well worth the money. I think most people run too much timing and when you run too much timing you can get away with running too fat. For instance I was told on my motor it should be at 38* timing, I ran it like that for a while and then I dynoed the motor. We were able to get a few more horsepower at 28*-30* timing and then was able to get fuel closer to. It was not a huge gain maybe 10-15 horsepower if I remember right but it is a faster and more conservative tune to. A good data logger can help you be a little faster and more consistent to. I run 8 O2 on my logger and it is a huge help. I look at the O2 on all 8 after every pass. Sometimes a smaller rear tire is faster but I tend to over tire my cars and be on safe side. Bottom line is to go faster you need, A) More power. B) less weight. And your combination has to work good, be able to get up on the tire yet not have too much tire spin, right converter, right gear ratio and more. https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/ "Dunning-Kruger Effect" -a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge. Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue. 4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion | |||
|
| DRR Sportsman |
Only problem with a dry sump is it's heavy. Theres definitely power there, but due to cost, I would look at other simpler things first. Looks like theres holes in the frontend also, that kills et. | |||
|
DRR Trophy |
Roof and 1/4s steel everything else glass. I would love to get rid of that giant scoop but need the room. Carb is about 4" from the top now but does have a 1.75" spacer that I could remove. The hood is heavy and not very aero.
| |||
|
| DRR Trophy |
That is exactly what I was talking about for oil control. After a pass I have to shut it off or pressure goes to 0 on decel even if not on the brakes. If I hit the brakes hard stopping after my burnout pressure will drop enough to make my pressure light flash so going below 20lbs. Checked bearings after 50 passes and looked new, they have 275 passes now. Just pulled the engine but haven't looked at anything yet. I do run 20/50 per the builder. Engine only carries 60-65lbs pressure when warm. I could change the spring and up the pressure. It has a melling billet pump and Moroso Aluminum pan. I installed drain back lines and that didn't seem to help the situation. I have a Moroso 4 vane pump. Have considered a flat bottom pan also. I stage at 170-175 and seems to be about .01 quicker than if I stage at 160.
| |||
|
| DRR Top Comp |
Send the engine to Nick Ferry for freshen up, it'll have 30w in the winter and 40w in the summer. It'll surpass your expections for performance. You should know it's crude 20/50 n/a | |||
|
| DRR Top Comp |
Okay so you have two problems. 1. You want to go faster. 2. You are losing oil pressure in shut down. Lighter oil will help on both of those issues if the clearances will work. Many people say to run 20-50 just because you are running alcohol. They say oil gets diluted with fuel and oil gets thinner. Now we have good tight motors and vacuum pumps plus we have learned to get motors warmer to get rid of the moisture in the pan. More than likely your could run 10-30 oil and it would help. On the oil pressure (with in reason) the VOLUME is more important than the PRESSURE to the bearings. I do not think 10-30 oil is going to get you the full .15 you are looking for but it will put you closer. And I would not go to a dry sump system for several reasons. https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/ "Dunning-Kruger Effect" -a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge. Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue. 4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion | |||
|
| DRR Top Comp |
Thinner oil will compound matters, the way it is currently. Send it to Nick Ferry, I think he's in Utah. Don't say nothing, just let him do his thing on it. | |||
|
| DRR S/Pro |
Lighter oil, as you noted flows easier and faster, therefore it also runs away from the pick up easier and faster! If you have an oil return issue, fix it, don't band aid it. Loosing oil pressure in the shutdown with a wet sump is not an issue. They all do it to some extent! The faster the car, the harder the braking and the quicker you will see the OP drop. NBD! Dry sumps will provide better oil control and much steadier OP! You will not see any improvement with on track performance adding one, the weight offsets the added HP. | |||
|
| DRR S/Pro |
Alky cools the intake air fuel intake charge to the cylinders and alky also contains O2. Once you get to around 1.8 HP per CID, the amount of alky fuel needed to produce that amount of HP starts to become an issue. With about twice the amount of fuel traveling down the intake and heads (vs gas)into the cylinders, keeping the fuel atomized becomes the challenge! This is why injection helps, your atomizing the fuel through a high pressure feed injector vs sucking it through a carb. And yes there's more to this story but it becomes more combo specific. A good 15+ years ago we dyno'ed your typical 540 BBC with a good gas carb and a good alky carb. The motor made the same peak HP but it did make close to 50 ft-lbs more torque at a lower rpm. Don't remember the actual numbers but peak HP was around 925 HP which is 1.7 HP/CID. With this combo, the alky combo would be faster on the track if the converter was optimized for the alky torque curve. Alky vs Gas - there are good reasons to use both fuels but in the right combos. They both work, just need to understand your goals and how to achieve them. | |||
|
| DRR Elite |
This is bracket talk not pro stock talk. You are a wannabe go fast guy with a slow turd! If the OP is a bracket racer he don’t need nor want Nick Ferri touching his engine which was built by one of the top bracket/sportsman engine builders in the country. That’s the only guy he should be talking to, not a storage unit hack assembling junk for the clueless and naive. | |||
|
| DRR Top Comp |
Let me know when you find a storage unit with sprayfoam insulation top to bottom and central heat and air nazi dork. This is the igloo cooler, get it right Dork    | |||
|
| DRR Top Comp |
Clean as a surgical lab know nothing, do nothing, crate engine buying Nazi Dork.  | |||
|
| DRR Elite |
Retard, it’s nearly 2022 and 99% of serious bracket and class racers have PROFESSIONALS build their race engines and trans missions just like the OP, I, Scott Lemen, Chris Gulitti and many others here do along with 10s of thousands of racers all across the country. No serious bracket racer is having you assemble anything on their race car, least of which is a nothing special small block that powers your 3200 lb. turd to 6.40s. | |||
|
| DRR Top Comp |
If I were in that business, this wouldn't be unparalleled 23 sbc performance at 3200 lbs, now would it, know nothing, do nothing, crate engine buying Dork?  | |||
|
| DRR Top Comp |
It's past noon, should you be breast feeding your driver nazi milk? | |||
|
DRR Pro |
what does the car weigh | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
 |
 |
 |
 |
