quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
My opinion is that the point missed by many in all of this is not whether or not this one particular kid is capable of driving safely at the ET and speed run daily by many of us. It's that it opens the door for anyone his age or younger that may not be capable.

Where do you draw the line now if you are putting on an event like this? 12 years old? There had been a line drawn in the sand and it was rubbed out in this case so a new line has to be established. Where is that line and it should be stated as it was before.

So many took it personal and came out in support of this kid but it is less about him than the age flood gate it opens. Just a thought.

Curtis

Exactly this... I would have no problem racing against this kid BUT if he gets away with disregarding the rules, then what? Next week there is another group of kids in big cars that think " well if he can do it..." some probably capable and some not so capable of handling a big car, and there is no way to police it because you can't tell one kid yes & the rest no. Then what about the parent who is convinced that their little prince is better at 12 years old than most of these 14-16 year olds? I get nervous at some of the less-strict tracks about the kids ripping through the pits on golf carts, so while the thought of racing THIS KID doesn't bother me at all, the thought of the staging lanes resembling a Chuck E Cheese does.

I think once NHRA got involved it probably eliminates this from happening again at an NHRA sanctioned track since the rule is you must be 16 and valid DL. If the Kid didn’t win would there be such an uproar?? He did race at the SFG 500 and not much was said then from what I’ve seen. Assuming the promoter gave him permission to race at SFG 500 because I can’t see his parents driving him that far and risking high entry fees to hope they don’t ask him for a license.. Like Jared explained seems like lessons were learned from this and just move on and rules will most likely get tighter because of it. Rules and safety should come first but that’s all out the window with the type of money on the line these days.. I’m sure racers have staged knowing the guy or gal next to them has shorts on or missing other mandatory equipment but did they get the starters attention to say hey this dude is breaking the rules and refuse to stage. No they staged and ran the race. You don’t want to snitch on a fellow racer but safety is safety and rules are rules and the money involved will cause sketchy decisions by some. Just my opinion though. Congrats to the kid he earned it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jared:

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

If the _HRA rules were followed at this event, the event wouldn't have been possible.

Can you elaborate?

I think you understand what I'm saying but I'll play along. If every car at the event (or most events), had to have all safety gear up to date, parachutes, chassis certs etc, VERY few cars would be allowed to compete. It isn't realistic to be able to pay those kinds of purses, with those kinds of entry fees, and hold every racer to the gold standard of the _HRA. Obviously, racers need to live up to a safety standard consistent with our market's general rules, but checking dates and fine details is not going to work out well for the people putting up 100's of thousands of dollars for racers to compete to win.

I call BS on this way of thinking. If people know that safety rules to whatever extent will be enforced then they will bring their stuff up to standards if they want to race these events. Some folks refer back to the Million that moved from Indy because cars couldn't pass tech, but those racers went there assuming it would be the same old pay at the gate and you are good mentality and were caught off guard by the full nhra tech. Any racer who competes on this level isn’t going to park their 1/4 million dollar plus race operation that they spend thousands a week entering races with because they are asked to spend a couple hundred to update or buy safety equipment. If they know it ahead of time, they’ll comply and we’ll have to find something else to b!tch about.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Hughes:

quote:

Originally posted by Jared:

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

If the _HRA rules were followed at this event, the event wouldn't have been possible.

Can you elaborate?

I think you understand what I'm saying but I'll play along. If every car at the event (or most events), had to have all safety gear up to date, parachutes, chassis certs etc, VERY few cars would be allowed to compete. It isn't realistic to be able to pay those kinds of purses, with those kinds of entry fees, and hold every racer to the gold standard of the _HRA. Obviously, racers need to live up to a safety standard consistent with our market's general rules, but checking dates and fine details is not going to work out well for the people putting up 100's of thousands of dollars for racers to compete to win.

I call BS on this way of thinking. If people know that safety rules to whatever extent will be enforced then they will bring their stuff up to standards if they want to race these events. Some folks refer back to the Million that moved from Indy because cars couldn't pass tech, but those racers went there assuming it would be the same old pay at the gate and you are good mentality and were caught off guard by the full nhra tech. Any racer who competes on this level isn’t going to park their 1/4 million dollar plus race operation that they spend thousands a week entering races with because they are asked to spend a couple hundred to update or buy safety equipment. If they know it ahead of time, they’ll comply and we’ll have to find something else to b!tch about.

You stand on your head and shake your pockets and I'll cover everything that hits the ground that if Randy mandated all nhra rules at the million he would lose over 150 cars at the small races. Some people regardless of how much they have invested aren't going to spend countless dollars on sfi bull**** that isn't necessary. Belts are 25 months old 175 bucks. Bellhousing and flexplate out of date (cause aluminum and steel out of the elements just go bad) 300-600 . Go drive and find a guy to put a $5.00 $200 sticker on your car to tell you your chromoly is still good. How bout them collector teathers? Got a manual cutoff valve on that belt pump? A bunch of 9-5 people (me included) do good to go spend 1000-1500 for a weekend of racing and aren't going to spend the additional. If it came down to nhra rules I just wouldn't go and I know 100% I'm not the only one. I bracket race not, NHRA race, I'd sell all my junk if that's what it came to.

quote:

Originally posted by BLIND MULE 2217:

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Hughes:

quote:

Originally posted by Jared:

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

If the _HRA rules were followed at this event, the event wouldn't have been possible.

Can you elaborate?

I think you understand what I'm saying but I'll play along. If every car at the event (or most events), had to have all safety gear up to date, parachutes, chassis certs etc, VERY few cars would be allowed to compete. It isn't realistic to be able to pay those kinds of purses, with those kinds of entry fees, and hold every racer to the gold standard of the _HRA. Obviously, racers need to live up to a safety standard consistent with our market's general rules, but checking dates and fine details is not going to work out well for the people putting up 100's of thousands of dollars for racers to compete to win.

I call BS on this way of thinking. If people know that safety rules to whatever extent will be enforced then they will bring their stuff up to standards if they want to race these events. Some folks refer back to the Million that moved from Indy because cars couldn't pass tech, but those racers went there assuming it would be the same old pay at the gate and you are good mentality and were caught off guard by the full nhra tech. Any racer who competes on this level isn’t going to park their 1/4 million dollar plus race operation that they spend thousands a week entering races with because they are asked to spend a couple hundred to update or buy safety equipment. If they know it ahead of time, they’ll comply and we’ll have to find something else to b!tch about.

You stand on your head and shake your pockets and I'll cover everything that hits the ground that if Randy mandated all nhra rules at the million he would lose over 150 cars at the small races. Some people regardless of how much they have invested aren't going to spend countless dollars on sfi bull**** that isn't necessary. Belts are 25 months old 175 bucks. Bellhousing and flexplate out of date (cause aluminum and steel out of the elements just go bad) 300-600 . Go drive and find a guy to put a $5.00 $200 sticker on your car to tell you your chromoly is still good. How bout them collector teathers? Got a manual cutoff valve on that belt pump? A bunch of 9-5 people (me included) do good to go spend 1000-1500 for a weekend of racing and aren't going to spend the additional. If it came down to nhra rules I just wouldn't go and I know 100% I'm not the only one. I bracket race not, NHRA race, I'd sell all my junk if that's what it came to.

Cost you bout $300 a year to keep all that stuff up to date. Save a few buy backs and you got it covered.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Hughes:

quote:

Originally posted by BLIND MULE 2217:

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Hughes:

quote:

Originally posted by Jared:

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

If the _HRA rules were followed at this event, the event wouldn't have been possible.

Can you elaborate?

I think you understand what I'm saying but I'll play along. If every car at the event (or most events), had to have all safety gear up to date, parachutes, chassis certs etc, VERY few cars would be allowed to compete. It isn't realistic to be able to pay those kinds of purses, with those kinds of entry fees, and hold every racer to the gold standard of the _HRA. Obviously, racers need to live up to a safety standard consistent with our market's general rules, but checking dates and fine details is not going to work out well for the people putting up 100's of thousands of dollars for racers to compete to win.

I call BS on this way of thinking. If people know that safety rules to whatever extent will be enforced then they will bring their stuff up to standards if they want to race these events. Some folks refer back to the Million that moved from Indy because cars couldn't pass tech, but those racers went there assuming it would be the same old pay at the gate and you are good mentality and were caught off guard by the full nhra tech. Any racer who competes on this level isn’t going to park their 1/4 million dollar plus race operation that they spend thousands a week entering races with because they are asked to spend a couple hundred to update or buy safety equipment. If they know it ahead of time, they’ll comply and we’ll have to find something else to b!tch about.

You stand on your head and shake your pockets and I'll cover everything that hits the ground that if Randy mandated all nhra rules at the million he would lose over 150 cars at the small races. Some people regardless of how much they have invested aren't going to spend countless dollars on sfi bull**** that isn't necessary. Belts are 25 months old 175 bucks. Bellhousing and flexplate out of date (cause aluminum and steel out of the elements just go bad) 300-600 . Go drive and find a guy to put a $5.00 $200 sticker on your car to tell you your chromoly is still good. How bout them collector teathers? Got a manual cutoff valve on that belt pump? A bunch of 9-5 people (me included) do good to go spend 1000-1500 for a weekend of racing and aren't going to spend the additional. If it came down to nhra rules I just wouldn't go and I know 100% I'm not the only one. I bracket race not, NHRA race, I'd sell all my junk if that's what it came to.

Cost you bout $300 a year to keep all that stuff up to date. Save a few buy backs and you got it covered.

*after the initial cost. You forgot to add the fine print.

Sfi flexplate can be had for $56 bucks from jegs, good for 3 years. Trans and flexplate shields, $200, good for 5 years. New belts, $150, plus chassis cert. You would really quit over that? Spend $600 and you dont have to worry bout it for 2 years.

Tech is a college football team from Blacksburg va. My belts are up to date and my helmet. There are a lot of opinions about this and that but are they from people who actually race?

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Hughes:
Sfi flexplate can be had for $56 bucks from jegs, good for 3 years. Trans and flexplate shields, $200, good for 5 years. New belts, $150, plus chassis cert. You would really quit over that? Spend $600 and you dont have to worry bout it for 2 years.

You ain't buying a flexplate for my deal for anywhere close to $60. Same goes for the trans shield. You forgot about the licence and doing what it takes to get it done. And yes before I spend 1000 on something that there is nothing wrong with I'll go play golf or fish.

You build cages and fabrication work. Any of your dom, moly or aluminum just go bad? The sfi deal on flexplates are a joke....You ever see some of the welds on those 50 dollar "deals" you spoke of?

Oh so the argument now is that the rules don't have to be followed if you deem them too expensive? As a rule, the safety stuff is a drop in the bucket compared to everything else we spend money on in this racing deal. Think about that for a moment.
I agree some of the safety rules seem like a money grab or unneeded. But the safety record of this sport in recent history is hard to argue with.

I got a little different take on the safety equipment that may make you reconsider some of it.

You want to wear an expired helmet or expired seat belts? Neck Collar, Gloves? I really don't care, but it seems most people take care of this part because it has to do with them.

You DON'T have collector tethers or have an expired flex plate or trans shield and one of my team members is hit by debris if something fails, we / you will have a problem and most likely you will lose what you have worked so hard for. And yes, legally you are responsible.

You DON'T have a diaper and have an issue, you may lose your car because of it. If the issue isn't caught you may cause a competitor behind you to lose his. Either way you are most likely going to lose something on this.

Safety equipment is not cheap, but nothing about our sport is. My cars just passed tech in Norwalk at the $40k. Yes they had one. Not debating, just pointing this out.

SL... glad I'm not in INDY, wishing I was in Norwalk Happy Labor Day Ya'll

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Hughes:

I call BS on this way of thinking. If people know that safety rules to whatever extent will be enforced then they will bring their stuff up to standards if they want to race these events. Some folks refer back to the Million that moved from Indy because cars couldn't pass tech, but those racers went there assuming it would be the same old pay at the gate and you are good mentality and were caught off guard by the full nhra tech. Any racer who competes on this level isn’t going to park their 1/4 million dollar plus race operation that they spend thousands a week entering races with because they are asked to spend a couple hundred to update or buy safety equipment. If they know it ahead of time, they’ll comply and we’ll have to find something else to b!tch about.

Steven,

I was under the impression the Indy race you are referring to moved to Bunker Hill because NHRA would not accept IHRA credentials??


Myself and a couple of friends towed to the million in Vegas several years back and were treated the same way by the NHRA tech, fortunately Biondo stepped in and arranged to pay the chassis certs for my 2 buddies. The division director who was there pulled me aside after I told him I was a chassis inspector for IHRA and I was not putting a NHRA sticker on my car because we used the same SFI specs so both should be accepted. He let me through with IHRA Cert.
This after I had contacted Biondo prior to pre entering to ensure our credentials would be accepted.
Their attitude (NHRA) is one of the reasons we haven't went back.


Flyers should state who's rules (NHRA/IHRA) are being followed and that's what should be used. Basic safety rules should be enforced, exceptions for the stupid ones i.e. UN modified or Un damaged trans/flexplate shield certification.

Dave

I never said anyone would quit racing over these rules. They'd just find somewhere to race that didn't enforce them. Everyone has their opinion on the topic. I don't know who's is right and who's isn't. But I have a pretty good guess

Jared, it doesn’t make any difference who is right or wrong. The rules are very clear and if this young had a incident oh man it would be unreal.

quote:

Originally posted by I.P. Dailey:
Jared, it doesn’t make any difference who is right or wrong. The rules are very clear and if this young had a incident oh man it would be unreal.

I've never disagreed with that thought IP. You are 100% correct. That wasn't the debate in the previous conversation. It was whether or not big buck races in this region could survive, if ALL _HRA rules were followed to the letter.

Rules are rules and you guys have enlightened me.
The rule is you must have a valid drivers license and meet other qualifications to get an NHRA Competition License. (But you do not have to)

I think it is pure Bull to have to get new flexplate and recert transmission case when they have never had a problem. I do not want to spend the time and money to change them out can I ignore that?

So and So wants to run a Matty box or what ever the newest latest, greatest cheating device is. Can he do that?

Joe Blow likes to have a few beers while he is racing. Is that okay?

What rules can we ignore? I mean I thought all of the RULES were Rules and now I guess some RULES are just suggestions?

Where is it that says what rules are to be enforced and which ones are not really rules because I am lost here. Help a Brother out.

Anytime I go anywhere to race I always want to know what the rules are, what the payout is and if there is anything I need to know before I decide where I am going to race. But now we find "rules" are not really rules. Well some are but others are not.

I still vote for random drug tests and breathalyzer's in the lanes.

quote:

Originally posted by 60 falcon:
I still vote for random drug tests and breathalyzer's in the lanes.

Why random?

quote:

Originally posted by 60 falcon:
I still vote for random drug tests and breathalyzer's in the lanes.

So who is going to pay for those...they sure are not free or cheap

Everyone takes a pee test at the gate.