I had an interesting conversation with the starters at Norwalk this weekend and come to the conclusion that as long as a deep staging racer turns on two bulbs he can never be timed out if he doesn’t go in deep because the computer doesn’t recognize what he is doing and the starter is holding the tree for him to get in deep. The starter said if he just sits there for too long he will flip the switch which at worse will catch him off guard because he isn’t deep but won’t get instant red like a normal staged racer would get. It would be easy for a racer who doesn’t deep stage to write deep on his windows then not go in deep and just wait for tree to come down and catch the other racer off guard because other racer was waiting for him to get in deep. Seems a bit unfair that doing it this way a deep stager can’t get timed out like a normal staging racer can.

Might ask one particular NE racer about what happens when you pull that at a certain NC tracks $20K race. Or how about where the deep stager is required to courtesy stage, or where they don't hold the tree at all. I deep staged for years and NEVER saw that happen and yes I have deep staged at Norwalk.....If you know the system and came to race and not play games it all works out fine----unless you are in NHRA Div 1

Green1 you have a pm.

quote:

Originally posted by green1:
I had an interesting conversation with the starters at Norwalk this weekend and come to the conclusion that as long as a deep staging racer turns on two bulbs he can never be timed out if he doesn’t go in deep because the computer doesn’t recognize what he is doing and the starter is holding the tree for him to get in deep. The starter said if he just sits there for too long he will flip the switch which at worse will catch him off guard because he isn’t deep but won’t get instant red like a normal staged racer would get. It would be easy for a racer who doesn’t deep stage to write deep on his windows then not go in deep and just wait for tree to come down and catch the other racer off guard because other racer was waiting for him to get in deep. Seems a bit unfair that doing it this way a deep stager can’t get timed out like a normal staging racer can.

Anything can go wrong if your starter isn't paying attention or doesn't know the rules themselves. I think the situations you described would be grounds for a justifiable objection from the racer or the racers starting line help. I can't imagine a track not making it right if something shady happened.

Thankfully around my area most racers who go deep don't mess around getting in. I've seen several occasions where the tree wasn't held for them when they took their time.

Where I'm at I was told it's my descretion and the deep stagers understand that it is up to them to get in. I have only had a problem with one that goes right in during time trials but waits and let's his opponent go in first then he lights the stage bulb and stops his forward motion. I don't wait at that point his opponents hadn't rushed him so I don't feel it's fair to hold them.

I asked them about it Friday night then on my time run Saturday I get a young kid with deep on his window and I give him time to light up two before I light one but he insisted on waiting for me so I light one and wait and he rolls in deep and then I get instant red because starter messed up and didn’t hold tree then realized and flipped switch back. I waited and backed out of beams to redo but sure makes you mad when you just had the discussion 12 hours ago. Starter admitted he messed up and I am fine with that but if it had been a round of racing I woulda been ticked big time.
My whole point is if they hold the tree for deep staging racers then deep staging racers can’t be timed out for not going in by the computer.

Seems like a simple fix to me.

Racers put an "N" on the car so the tree comes down normal if they are the faster car (no crosstalk).

Why can't someone program it so it recognizes a "D" for deep? The deep stager is "prestaged" when he has both bulbs on.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
Seems like a simple fix to me.

Racers put an "N" on the car so the tree comes down normal if they are the faster car (no crosstalk).

Why can't someone program it so it recognizes a "D" for deep? The deep stager is "prestaged" when he has both bulbs on.

We pushed for that for years Tom. Brockmeyer gave us a price, no tracks wanted to pay the fee.

Issues like this come up constantly and everybody always has a "simple" fix.

My "simple" fix is to say that you can stage as deep as you want,but if you put out the top light,you are disqualified.

quote:

Originally posted by 442OLDS:

My "simple" fix is to say that you can stage as deep as you want,but if you put out the top light,you are disqualified.

I like that idea.

The simplest thing to do if you are in the other lane is to not do anything different than you would normally do.

Don't rush in trying to hang the deeper out, and don't wait around letting them get in. Just do your thing and there won't be a problem.

A deep stager should know that the burden is on them to get in deep in the proper amount of time.

quote:

Originally posted by Lenny5160:
The simplest thing to do if you are in the other lane is to not do anything different than you would normally do.

Don't rush in trying to hang the deeper out, and don't wait around letting them get in. Just do your thing and there won't be a problem.

A deep stager should know that the burden is on them to get in deep in the proper amount of time.

I ran my buddy in Mod a few years ago, he was deep staging his daily driver that day. I went and lit the first bulb. He had 2 on, I waited and waited (felt like forever) and put the second one on. The tree came down and he never got in deep. He reminds me how I ****ed him every chance he gets. I was counting and went in when I got to 5 or 6, had I waited longer, I would have been red lit.

They were not holding the tree for deep.

I'll wait for a deep stager but I'm not getting counted out to be courteous.

Deep staging is not a crime but unfortunatly many don't understand it.

quote:

Originally posted by 442OLDS:
Issues like this come up constantly and everybody always has a "simple" fix.

My "simple" fix is to say that you can stage as deep as you want,but if you put out the top light,you are disqualified.

You're dumb! Sly Fox...for agreeing....well read my first two words. I was going to not come on for fear I'd shake my head at the comments. Well I came on and here we are.....

quote:

Originally posted by Lenny5160:
The simplest thing to do if you are in the other lane is to not do anything different than you would normally do.

Don't rush in trying to hang the deeper out, and don't wait around letting them get in. Just do your thing and there won't be a problem.

A deep stager should know that the burden is on them to get in deep in the proper amount of time.

SOMEONE GETS IT!!!! I tell every and all competitors that I race against....no it's fine don't vary your routine for me. Whatever you do is up to you and I'll get in to the best of my ability. The onus is entirely on me.

I deep stage, and don't hang anyone out. I don't feel like I control the tree. I light both bulbs, and once my opponent lights one, do my thing and get in. If my opponent wants to take their time, I don't care. Not going to throw me off my game. Basic sportsmanship.

Anyone that is against DEEP staging, does not have the best interest of bottom bulb racing, in mind. It takes DEEP stagers to make the big buck bottom bulb races work. The timing system should be able to handle the autostart issue, for DEEP staging, but apparently, it costs way more money, than tracks are willing to pay. The ETS system makes it easy for their owners, but it was designed by a man named Pennington, from Alabama, so it makes sense that it is set up to HELP this situation. They are good people .

There are DEEP stagers that play games, and cause issues. There are shallow stagers that do the same. Some of them actually stop prior to the pre-stage beam and do their taxes, but we never seem to hear much about that. Drag racing is full of people that try to get you off of your game. Some of them succeed. Don't let it bother you, and you'll be way better off. Dragsters make me wait longer in the burnout box, but we need them to make the big races work, so I deal with it. It is truly that simple.

Thank you for reading, and good luck at the track.

quote:

Originally posted by shrtch1157:

quote:

Originally posted by 442OLDS:
Issues like this come up constantly and everybody always has a "simple" fix.

My "simple" fix is to say that you can stage as deep as you want,but if you put out the top light,you are disqualified.

You're dumb! Sly Fox...for agreeing....well read my first two words. I was going to not come on for fear I'd shake my head at the comments. Well I came on and here we are.....

I'm pretty sure you don't want to go comparing SAT scores with me, dingleberry.

quote:

Originally posted by ferndaleflyer:
Deep staging is not a crime but unfortunatly many don't understand it.

No, everyone understands it. Many (myself included) just think the rules ought to be the same for everyone, which is achieved by auto-start. I am opposed to holding the tree. You can stage deep, shallow, first, last, sideways, upside down, whatever - just don't hold the tree.

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:

quote:

Originally posted by ferndaleflyer:
Deep staging is not a crime but unfortunatly many don't understand it.

No, everyone understands it. Many (myself included) just think the rules ought to be the same for everyone, which is achieved by auto-start. I am opposed to holding the tree. You can stage deep, shallow, first, last, sideways, upside down, whatever - just don't hold the tree.

We must be the only two people that feel this way,but I could not have said it better.

Evidently, we are dumb because we think the rules should be the same for everyone.