The easiest fix is to get rid of courtesy staging and if you want to go deep, get your ass in! Double bulbing is pre staging for a racer going deep. If getting double bulbed annoys you, go find another hobby! Since LED bulbs are the norm these days, it is important to understand why we need to allow deep staging. It's hard to cut a light shallow in a slow bracket car. Not everyone has perfect vision. Some racers are working with only one eye! It amazes me how we have catered to the faster cars with crosstalk but consistently screw the slower, low buck guy. Why do we even have autostart and courtesy staging? To save time? To eliminate the influence of the starter? Why do I need to wait on my opponent to light a bulb after I have pre staged? Stupid, unnecessary rules that just create more issues than solve. WFC and Loose Rocker events prove every time that deep staging can work. As far as being timed out, just eliminate autostart in bottom bulb races. A drag race should NEVER be won before either car leaves the starting line anyway!!

Manny Sousa

Manny,you got it right ,agree 100 %,thanks for your input,also Jared Pennington is dead on.

HAMMER7316
RON NICKELS

Just curious . . . Has anyone tried an autostart system that activates off of two bulbs instead of three? That is, when both PRE-STAGE bulbs are lit (regardless of any stage bulb that might be lit) the timer starts and the tree is dropping in X seconds. I think that could be used in any form of racing and everyone knows exactly how long they have to get in or be out. Might cut down on some other stuff too.

That said, I've staged both ways a ton and never had a problem because I just do my thing and make sure to be ready when the tree drops!

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:

quote:

Originally posted by ferndaleflyer:
Deep staging is not a crime but unfortunatly many don't understand it.

No, everyone understands it. Many (myself included) just think the rules ought to be the same for everyone, which is achieved by auto-start. I am opposed to holding the tree. You can stage deep, shallow, first, last, sideways, upside down, whatever - just don't hold the tree.

You went from agreeing that no one should be able to knock the light out (aka deep stage) to being ok with everyone doing their own thing. Glad to see I got you to have a change of heart!!! Always a pleasure!!

PS Book smarts or not....well I will let you use your vast knowledge to complete my statement!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 442OLDS:

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:

quote:

Originally posted by ferndaleflyer:
Deep staging is not a crime but unfortunatly many don't understand it.

No, everyone understands it. Many (myself included) just think the rules ought to be the same for everyone, which is achieved by auto-start. I am opposed to holding the tree. You can stage deep, shallow, first, last, sideways, upside down, whatever - just don't hold the tree.

We must be the only two people that feel this way,but I could not have said it better.

Evidently, we are dumb because we think the rules should be the same for everyone.

Evidently you also had a change of heart....you'd like the rules the same for everyone. Initially you said if you knock the top light out, you should be disqualified. Glad to see another satisfied customer come to the side of thinking....YOU DO YOUR THING, I DO MINE....a win light will come on in one of our lanes....end of story.

I have nothing against deep staging just stating by what I discussed with track officials that if the track is holding the tree for a deep staging racer there isn’t any way that they can be timed out by the computer for not getting in deep. I witnessed a lot of deep staging racer waiting to go in last and if that’s the case they should be on a timer just like evetbody else.

I deep staged for a long time and if a deep stager is trying to stage last and holding up the program they should drop the tree on him. I have seen this more than once. Around here we seem to let the deep car get in first and they do. Gheezzz we came to race, right?

Deep stagers don't think they get a "fair" race unless they get special treatment. Pretty damn funny when you think about it. Takes a certain level of intelligence to see the humor though.

I've never claimed to be very smart, but even a simple mind like mine, can see that DEEP stagers aren't wanting 'special' treatment. They want 'equal' treatment. Deep stagers don't want the tree held for them. They simply want the timing system to work for them, just like it does for everyone else. It is truly that simple. Those who can't see that, must not be as smart as this simple minded redneck.

We make concessions for everybody else in racing. Fast cars got cross talk. Bottom bulb cars can take cross talk off. Dragsters get to burn across the line, and take as much time as they wish, while the door car waits. Game playing shallow stagers caused autostart. Why not just fix the timing system, to include another group of racers, so they can play on an equal playing field? Until that happens, we have to handle it the old fashioned way. We can't blame the DEEP stagers for the way they race, because we fixed it for everybody else but them. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:
Deep stagers don't think they get a "fair" race unless they get special treatment. Pretty damn funny when you think about it. Takes a certain level of intelligence to see the humor though.

As I have stated in my previous post, deep staging has been proven to work at the biggest footbrake races around. It was around long before autostart and courtesy staging. If you think deep staging isn't "fair", you have no concept of why bracket racing was started. Talk about humor and intelligence. Answer my previous questions. Why the need for autostart and courtesy staging? Why the need for crosstalk in top bulb classes? Go jump in a heavy, big tire and loose converter ride and let me know how well you hit the tree. On top of that, do it with my vision issues. It's been around forever but doesn't fit your ideals so it's a problem for you. The sport continues to phase the little guy out and people like you are part of the problem. We already have turned bottom bulb into super pro "b" with the addition of trans brakes. If it continues on this path, you will be racing all run combos before too long!

Manny Sousa

Deep stagers DO control the tree if the track honors deep. It puts the "go" in the starters hands like it used to be before Autostart.

When they switched to Autostart, I tried to deep stage a buddies dragster at my home track. It wasn't about getting in first or last, it was about the starter flipping the switch (like the old days) instead of computer starting the tree the same every run.

It was an absolute mess because they couldn't figure out what to do.

-------------------------------------------
Deep staging should be allowed and honored here in NHRA division 1. We are not allowed trans brakes because Pro is a footbrake only class.

For a car like mine, I need to go deep to cut a light. My car leaves slow off the foot, mid to low 10's with an 8" converter, glide, 4.56 gears and a lot of front end travel

I don't deep stage it because they will not honor deep and I refuse to get caught by some jackass who wants to rush up and screw me out of my chance to get in.

quote:

Originally posted by Jared:
I've never claimed to be very smart, but even a simple mind like mine, can see that DEEP stagers aren't wanting 'special' treatment. They want 'equal' treatment. Deep stagers don't want the tree held for them. They simply want the timing system to work for them, just like it does for everyone else.

So fix the timing system.

quote:

Originally posted by manny:

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:
Deep stagers don't think they get a "fair" race unless they get special treatment. Pretty damn funny when you think about it. Takes a certain level of intelligence to see the humor though.

As I have stated in my previous post, deep staging has been proven to work at the biggest footbrake races around. It was around long before autostart and courtesy staging. If you think deep staging isn't "fair", you have no concept of why bracket racing was started. Talk about humor and intelligence. Answer my previous questions. Why the need for autostart and courtesy staging? Why the need for crosstalk in top bulb classes? Go jump in a heavy, big tire and loose converter ride and let me know how well you hit the tree. On top of that, do it with my vision issues. It's been around forever but doesn't fit your ideals so it's a problem for you. The sport continues to phase the little guy out and people like you are part of the problem. We already have turned bottom bulb into super pro "b" with the addition of trans brakes. If it continues on this path, you will be racing all run combos before too long!

Manny Sousa

Work on your combo to react quicker, or find a different spot on the tree to leave from, or learn to roll in deep in the time allotted by auto-start.

Oh wait, we can just over-ride auto-start and hold the tree while you get situated.

To be clear, I don't care if the car in the other lane deep stages. Where I race, auto-start is used, the deep stagers get in there first, courtesy staging is disregarded, and everybody is cool. It's holding the tree that I (and most) object too.

Deep stagers are using the pre-stage beam to help them get situated in the stage beam. Who said that's what the pre-stage beam is for? Once you beak the stage beam and the stage bulb comes on, YOU ARE STAGED. If you want more time, that's on you and you need to figure it out yourself.

Suppose some folks like to stage somewhere between barely lighting the second bulb but not all the way to knocking out the first bulb. Can I write "PLEASE HOLD TREE WHILE I TAKE MY TIME" on my car and have the starter hold the tree? How do I let the starter know I'm ready? The whole thing is ridiculous. I'll say again, auto-start is the only fair system.

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:

quote:

Originally posted by manny:

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:
Deep stagers don't think they get a "fair" race unless they get special treatment. Pretty damn funny when you think about it. Takes a certain level of intelligence to see the humor though.

As I have stated in my previous post, deep staging has been proven to work at the biggest footbrake races around. It was around long before autostart and courtesy staging. If you think deep staging isn't "fair", you have no concept of why bracket racing was started. Talk about humor and intelligence. Answer my previous questions. Why the need for autostart and courtesy staging? Why the need for crosstalk in top bulb classes? Go jump in a heavy, big tire and loose converter ride and let me know how well you hit the tree. On top of that, do it with my vision issues. It's been around forever but doesn't fit your ideals so it's a problem for you. The sport continues to phase the little guy out and people like you are part of the problem. We already have turned bottom bulb into super pro "b" with the addition of trans brakes. If it continues on this path, you will be racing all run combos before too long!

Manny Sousa

Work on your combo to react quicker, or find a different spot on the tree to leave from, or learn to roll in deep in the time allotted by auto-start.

Oh wait, we can just over-ride auto-start and hold the tree while you get situated.

Clueless

quote:

Originally posted by Jared:
I've never claimed to be very smart, but even a simple mind like mine, can see that DEEP stagers aren't wanting 'special' treatment.

Well, as a matter of fact, yes they are. They can't get situated in the time allotted by auto-start, so they want it over-ridden and have the tree held. It is the very definition of special treatment. They don't considered themselves STAGED when they break the STAGE BEAM and light the STAGE BULB (which is the very definition of STAGED) so they want more time.

quote:

Originally posted by LIZZARD:


Clueless

You have a point to make that you can explain, or is name calling all you got?

I had to race Nick Bowman at a local track on Memorial Day weekend. The particular track we raced at doesn't hold the tree, the starter doesn't even have a switch. I didn't change up my routine for him and I don't think he expected me to. By the time I was almost to the pre-staged beam, he was already double-bulbed. As soon as I hit pre-staged, we both started bumping in. He kicked my butt twice. I don't see what is so complicated about it. People are making it harder than it is.

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:

quote:

Originally posted by manny:

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:
Deep stagers don't think they get a "fair" race unless they get special treatment. Pretty damn funny when you think about it. Takes a certain level of intelligence to see the humor though.

As I have stated in my previous post, deep staging has been proven to work at the biggest footbrake races around. It was around long before autostart and courtesy staging. If you think deep staging isn't "fair", you have no concept of why bracket racing was started. Talk about humor and intelligence. Answer my previous questions. Why the need for autostart and courtesy staging? Why the need for crosstalk in top bulb classes? Go jump in a heavy, big tire and loose converter ride and let me know how well you hit the tree. On top of that, do it with my vision issues. It's been around forever but doesn't fit your ideals so it's a problem for you. The sport continues to phase the little guy out and people like you are part of the problem. We already have turned bottom bulb into super pro "b" with the addition of trans brakes. If it continues on this path, you will be racing all run combos before too long!

Manny Sousa

Work on your combo to react quicker, or find a different spot on the tree to leave from, or learn to roll in deep in the time allotted by auto-start.

Oh wait, we can just over-ride auto-start and hold the tree while you get situated.

I don't bottom bulb race but I can honestly say I've waited longer for other top bulb racers to get their stuff together than any of the dozen or so deep stagers to get in.

quote:

Originally posted by RB72Duster:
I had to race Nick Bowman at a local track on Memorial Day weekend. The particular track we raced at doesn't hold the tree, the starter doesn't even have a switch. I didn't change up my routine for him and I don't think he expected me to. By the time I was almost to the pre-staged beam, he was already double-bulbed. As soon as I hit pre-staged, we both started bumping in. He kicked my butt twice. I don't see what is so complicated about it. People are making it harder than it is.

I think the concern is that not all racers are like Nick. Everyone has to stage within the confines of a timer....except in this case. Some will take advantage of it.