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DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 1320racer:
The details are out


Link or reference? I don't mind passing on the version I heard, but since it is second hand, I'd rather see if it's inline with an official version first.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
posted Hide Post
there will never be an official version. the details are out from those that witnessed the crash and first to get to the driver
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
posted Hide Post
Gotcha.....
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
one of my friends was there and was one of the first on the scene. he said this wreck was one of the most violent he has seen and the the car was on the lid after stopping. he said the car got on top of the guard rail and hit at least 3 times on top of the rail.

one of his issues was the fact that there was no ambulance on site and it took quite a bit of time for one to arrive.

ep
 
Posts: 776 | Location: dodging double wides... | Registered: November 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by pauley:
one of my friends was there and was one of the first on the scene. he said this wreck was one of the most violent he has seen and the the car was on the lid after stopping. he said the car got on top of the guard rail and hit at least 3 times on top of the rail.

one of his issues was the fact that there was no ambulance on site and it took quite a bit of time for one to arrive.

ep


There should always be an ambulance on site if any cars go down the track. Period. Another lesson we can learn here.

From what little I heard it does not sound like in this case it would have made any difference at all.

There are things that may have made a difference but we can not talk about that.

Still I would like to know what happened in hopes we may be able to prevent it from happening again. If it was his fault he paid the price for it. Let us learn from it.

Like after Dale Earnhardt died I think was much of the reason for Head and Neck restraints. I am sorry we lost him but that may have saved dozens of lives since then?


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4143 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
I have a saying that I made up. This is regarding brakes on your race car.

"You can always make the car go faster, you get ONE chance to stop!"

Sounds silly I know, but that is one of the reasons I spent more money on my braking system and didn't ask like many do, which are the cheapest brakes.

I had a long talk with a well known Super Comp racer some years ago in Dallas. He has one of the fastest cars in the class. He does not wear any type of Hans Device. I explained to him that since he is chasing the other car 99.9% of the time that there is no valid reason for him to NOT wear one. He is not having to look over his shoulder, the race is developing out in front of him every time. I hope that eventually he will make the decision to buy one.

We all know the risk when we get in that car, the best thing we can do is make sure we take advantage of the safety products that are on the market to help us avoid being killed or injured.

Fix or upgrade your safety equipment and wait a few months for that new carburetor or camshaft or whatever you're wanting to make the car faster.

In life, as in baseball, it's the number of times you reach home safely that count!!


Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right. Here I am.......
 
Posts: 5326 | Location: stuck in the middle with you! | Registered: March 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
said the car got on top of the guard rail and hit at least 3 times on top of the rail.


Never been there… Armco or Jersey?
 
Posts: 2558 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
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As a track owner for a lot of years the crashes were the worst part. If the racer was OK it was terrible to see the financial loss. We lost one of best friends at my track who died of his injuries, still bothers me to talk about it, I think of him all the time, what could I have done different or better as a track owner. He exploded a motor (before diapers) and slid into an opening in the guardrail we used as a early turnoff when we ran 1/8th mile. It was angled and was about a 45-degree angle. He hit absolutely broadside and the side bar bent in, rocker panel collapsed and door pillar caved in enough to crush his ribs into his heart, he was gone in seconds. The next week I had about 10 racers come look at the car in the shed. The obvious consensus was it needed more side protection. (this was a rare 67 Mustang Cobra Jet running 10.70s with the normal, for the day, 8-point roll bar (no dash or rocker bars). Stock floor, dash, firewall etc. The impact took the rocker panel, cowl and rollbar front bar and the side bar in about 12".) I know of about 15 cars that installed rocker bars and braced the rocker bars over to the subframe or subframe connectors. Personally, I added a dash bar and rocker bar to my roll cage.
This was "the old days" but reality is, in a side impact there isn't much protection compared to a oval track car, for obvious reasons.

I agree the track should always have an ambulance with trained staff and emergency tools to cut a roll cage out of the way. If the track cannot afford that, they need to re-evaluate their business plan.

I currently race at a track without an ambulance but they have a EMT with some equipment, not near enough for races where 200-300 cars are running. We are all responsible for own safety, I get that. Reality is, if you need a Rescue crew your preparations can only do so much.

Good luck, quit sliding through the lights and keep the harnesses and helmets TIGHT!

Jok


www.trailertoad.com designed by racers for racers.

 
Posts: 1225 | Location: Janesville, IA | Registered: December 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
posted Hide Post
The second hand info I received stated, from a witness, that the helmet was on the track and the body was not strapped into the car. Not sure if there was mechanical failures or overlooked personal safety.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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It’s very clear why this young man died and it ain’t because an ambulance wasn’t available.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
I have raced at that track plenty and as I remember there was an ambulance sitting right by the tower every time I was there.

On knowing what happened: Many knew Thomas Dunford, Does anyone REALLY know what happened? One of my friends got killed at Atco many years ago. They impounded the car to investigate the cause but all I got out of it was everyone trying to cover their a$$. Never found out why or what caused him to wreck. Saw a man killed at Pageland like Jok described, real fast car hit end of Armco guard rail sideways in drivers door. Took cage, driver and seat almost out the other side. Dead. Nice looking car and cage--welded to the sheet metal floor not the frame. Never found out why or who to blame.

So do we EVER find out why for sure?

They up North used to check every car some at every race when they came in, now nothing. Does it really take that much time to check a little? Lots of unsafe cars at every race we go to but still they check NOTHING.
 
Posts: 6234 | Location: everywhere | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TonyB6255
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Bottom line is we can have all he safety equipment in the world but if we don't wear it, it's not going to do a damn thing. Keep all your safety equipment on, buckled and tight until safely off the track.

I have personally seen these as I am sure some others have.

Loose belts
Shorts and t shirt in a 4.40 dragster.
Helmet strap with velcro instead of loops.

You think nothing will ever happen but it can and does. Speaking from experience and damn glad I had all my safety equipment on and up to date.
 
Posts: 637 | Location: Rochester, WA | Registered: November 22, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
The second hand info I received stated, from a witness, that the helmet was on the track and the body was not strapped into the car. Not sure if there was mechanical failures or overlooked personal safety.


If he was not strapped in his helmet and harness that explains a lot. That could make a relatively minor crash a non survivable event.
Sure a mechanical failure could have caused wreck but he probably would have survived with proper wearing of safety equipment.

That is all ASSUMING he was not strapped in. I know when I get in my car I tighten heck out of my belts and check / tighten them several times more before I race. Just part of my routine.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4143 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of RacerVX54
posted Hide Post
Always sad when this happens! When its totally preventable...


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1407 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
Picture of RacerVX54
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by TonyB6255:
Bottom line is we can have all he safety equipment in the world but if we don't wear it, it's not going to do a damn thing. Keep all your safety equipment on, buckled and tight until safely off the track.

I have personally seen these as I am sure some others have.

Loose belts
Shorts and t shirt in a 4.40 dragster.
Helmet strap with velcro instead of loops.

You think nothing will ever happen but it can and does. Speaking from experience and damn glad I had all my safety equipment on and up to date.


At the home track near me.. Guy driving a altered in a wives beater shorts and flip flops. I kid you not. I was so disturbed that I walked up too the track owner.. Car was a 5.50 car... Unreal FLIP FLOPS....


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1407 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RacerVX54:
quote:
Originally posted by TonyB6255:
Bottom line is we can have all he safety equipment in the world but if we don't wear it, it's not going to do a damn thing. Keep all your safety equipment on, buckled and tight until safely off the track.

I have personally seen these as I am sure some others have.

Loose belts
Shorts and t shirt in a 4.40 dragster.
Helmet strap with velcro instead of loops.

You think nothing will ever happen but it can and does. Speaking from experience and damn glad I had all my safety equipment on and up to date.


At the home track near me.. Guy driving a altered in a wives beater shorts and flip flops. I kid your not. I was so disturbed that I walked up too the track owner.. Car was a 5.50 car... Unreal FLIP FLOPS....


Kowabunga dude!


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6427 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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What could be a defining moment, a turning point in our sport, won’t be as long as tracks and promoters look the other way when it comes to behavior and safety, allowing racers to police themselves as well act and do as they please.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1320racer,
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
quote:
said the car got on top of the guard rail and hit at least 3 times on top of the rail.


Never been there… Armco or Jersey?


double metal guard rail. i am pretty sure it is the whole way down the track the best i can remember

ep
 
Posts: 776 | Location: dodging double wides... | Registered: November 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 1320racer:
It’s very clear why this young man died and it ain’t because an ambulance wasn’t available.


not arguing that point at all 1290. this young man may have passed upon impact or he may have passed in a time frame where an ambulance could have helped save him. i don't know and know one else knows.

i was just saying that some one there with first hand knowledge said no ambulance was available only emt personnel with limited equipment

ep- fern, i have seen that ambulance behind the water box on the tower side but is it ever manned with emt. best i can recall i just remember seeing it sit there.
 
Posts: 776 | Location: dodging double wides... | Registered: November 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 1320racer:
what needs to happen not only at Farmington but every track in the country is to have a stand down/driver’s meeting before 1st round to discuss expectations, driver conduct and safety responsibility. Without this happening coast to coast every week, the culture never changes and we will see more fatalities.


That seems very reasonable to me. Doesn't sound like it would create too much of a time delay. It also doesn't sound like something I believe drivers would object to. However, I do wonder if the track operator might object, just because he/she isn't sure what to say and/or is afraid of saying it. Take care. Tom Worthington


If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
 
Posts: 1254 | Location: Rocky Mount, NC | Registered: December 01, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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