Class envy fueling class warfare!
He has a terminal case of it!

I think you would find a lot of agreement with most of the middle class that:
-There is no reason for the wealthy to pay a lessor % of their entire income than the middle class. For that matter, there is no reason for the poor to some extent to pay a lessor %.
-Social services are needed, but many are being abused. We don't want the baby thrown out with the bathwater, but we want the abuse to end.
-American workers need some protection from absurdly low overseas wages and lack of any overseas environmental standards in order to keep jobs here, and in fact bring jobs back here. The government gets money from the higher tarriffs without taxing our own directly, and we get a better shot at domestic manufacturing.
-We want to take advantage of our domestic fuel resources, but we don't want to screw up the environment as a result. There is a middle of the road were we can get those two worlds, and we want both sides to work together to come up with an acceptable middle ground.
-We want people who are in our country illegally to not be here soaking up our jobs and social services and education money. And, we don't want to bring excessive amounts of people into our country going forward.

But the candidates pretty much avoid this kind of talk. It isn't polarizing, and doesn't distinguish one candidate from the other. We are so close to making things work well in this country again, but we cannot get past the politics to get it done.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Koski:
Class envy fueling class warfare!
He has a terminal case of it!

That's really not the case Bill. But we have had a wholesale shift downward in the % of income that the wealthy pay in this country over the last two decades, and we are in the midst of the worst economic conditions and deficit spending ever. One may not have caused the other, but it certainly hasn't been the solution either.

The nation is sinking!
Bogus numbers are the norm!
This regime will lie about anything and everything to try and hang onto power!
It's been shown here over and over that soaking the rich will not bring in the revenues that the FLEEBAGGERS insist on spending!
As "dyckhead" himself said in 2008, paraphrasing, "raising the capital gains tax will not bring in much revenue BUT it is a matter of FAIRNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOWERING the capital gains rate HAS ALWAYS brought in a flood of money to the treasury!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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As "dyckhead" himself said in 2008, paraphrasing, "raising the capital gains tax will not bring in much revenue BUT it is a matter of FAIRNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is wrong with that? It may be the one single thing he has said that I agree with.

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What is wrong with that? It may be the one single thing he has said that I agree with.

Why?

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Originally posted by Mike English:

quote:

What is wrong with that? It may be the one single thing he has said that I agree with.

Why?

Why should income from capital gains be taxed differently than revenue gained from the sweat off our our brows?

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Why should income from capital gains be taxed differently than revenue gained from the sweat off our our brows

Capital gains are mostly investments like your house. A low tax rate(17% right now)could keep the housing market going if the federal govement would stay out of it.

If I'm retired and living on the income from my investments why should it be taxed as high as regular income when I've already paid income tax on the original investment.

The fairness to rape the rich no longer applies to "only" the rich. It affects middle income earners who have been smart enough to sacrifice throughout their early years to provide for their own retirement.

Yeah, I know the threshold where it becomes acceptable to tax the crap out of someone. It's still not "fair" in my opinion..
It would become more palatable if the money that was taken was used wisely, but why agree to feed the beast when you know what will happen with it is wrong??

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

As "dyckhead" himself said in 2008, paraphrasing, "raising the capital gains tax will not bring in much revenue BUT it is a matter of FAIRNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is wrong with that? It may be the one single thing he has said that I agree with.

When “fairness” replaces “freedom,” all our liberties are in danger. - Milton Friedman

No truer words were ever spoken! Especially when it is politicians that are forcing their idea of fairness on the people.

Bucky, your idea of fair is different than mine. As is mine compared to Mike English's or anyone else. The world is not fair! And the only thing that can begin to counter-act unfairness is freedom. You can not legislate fairness for one person without being unfair to another in some way.

quote:

Originally posted by stanman:

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

As "dyckhead" himself said in 2008, paraphrasing, "raising the capital gains tax will not bring in much revenue BUT it is a matter of FAIRNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is wrong with that? It may be the one single thing he has said that I agree with.

When “fairness” replaces “freedom,” all our liberties are in danger. - Milton Friedman

No truer words were ever spoken! Especially when it is politicians that are forcing their idea of fairness on the people.

Bucky, your idea of fair is different than mine. As is mine compared to Mike English's or anyone else. The world is not fair! And the only thing that can begin to counter-act unfairness is freedom. You can not legislate fairness for one person without being unfair to another in some way.

I agree with what you say. But....that is where this all started. The big chunk of working people in this country have no one to vote for who represents them and what they believe in and mostly agree upon. If you were to ask 100 working aged people of average income if they think that the wealthy should pay a lessor percentage of their income in taxes than they do....what do you think you would find? The high end of the tax structure has taken a nose dive in the last 20 years, and you will find that politics and the wealthy in our country were the impetus for the changes. That is a very small portion of our population changing the tax structure to their benefit. I see something very wrong with that. Was the original structure of over 70% excessive? Probably. Does it make sense that they now pay much less than the average working person percentage wise? Not in my world. This isn't class warfare or envy. It's a simple matter of fairness.

quote:

Originally posted by David Covey:
If I'm retired and living on the income from my investments why should it be taxed as high as regular income when I've already paid income tax on the original investment.

The fairness to rape the rich no longer applies to "only" the rich. It affects middle income earners who have been smart enough to sacrifice throughout their early years to provide for their own retirement.

Yeah, I know the threshold where it becomes acceptable to tax the crap out of someone. It's still not "fair" in my opinion..
It would become more palatable if the money that was taken was used wisely, but why agree to feed the beast when you know what will happen with it is wrong??

Dave

You paid income tax on the original investment...not the income that the investment then brings you. It is income that you do nothing to receive other than sport the original investment. It's income! Why make a differentiation?
Nobody I know whats to rape the rich. We just want the same tax rate to apply to them.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike English:

quote:

Why should income from capital gains be taxed differently than revenue gained from the sweat off our our brows

Capital gains are mostly investments like your house. A low tax rate(17% right now)could keep the housing market going if the federal govement would stay out of it.

I say make an exception to capital gains on a primary residence for that very reason. It does help the housing market. That would also be my only exception to no personal income tax write offs...interest paid on primary housing loans.

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Why should income from capital gains be taxed differently than revenue gained from the sweat off our our brows?

The sweat off our brows is the risk in collecting a paycheck. Losing all you have "invested" is the risk you take in investing. Two different scenarios.

There is an exception to capital gains on one personal residence per life time! I've used mine, AT LEAST once!

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Originally posted by Bill Koski:
There is an exception to capital gains on one personal residence per life time! I've used mine, AT LEAST once!

Correct, and that would be a good one to keep IMO.

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Originally posted by ET2278:

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Why should income from capital gains be taxed differently than revenue gained from the sweat off our our brows?

The sweat off our brows is the risk in collecting a paycheck. Losing all you have "invested" is the risk you take in investing. Two different scenarios.

You take the risk not because of lower taxes, but rather because the payoff can be larger than leaving your money in a savings account. our country owes no favors because somebody is willing to take a risk.

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Originally posted by Bucky: You take the risk not because of lower taxes, but rather because the payoff can be larger than leaving your money in a savings account. our country owes no favors because somebody is willing to take a risk.

And they should be encouraged to take those risk, not demonized, maligned, and forced to pay for someone else's unwillingness to take risk or some politicians agenda.

I am my brother's keeper, not the government! It boils down to the fact that the government has continuously and incrementally taken over aspects of our everyday lives that it was never empowered to do.

I'll address your response to my post above when I have more time... it's a lengthier subject!!

quote:

Originally posted by stanman:

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky: You take the risk not because of lower taxes, but rather because the payoff can be larger than leaving your money in a savings account. our country owes no favors because somebody is willing to take a risk.

And they should be encouraged to take those risk, not demonized, maligned, and forced to pay for someone else's unwillingness to take risk or some politicians agenda.

I am my brother's keeper, not the government! It boils down to the fact that the government has continuously and incrementally taken over aspects of our everyday lives that it was never empowered to do.

I'll address your response to my post above when I have more time... it's a lengthier subject!!

I'm not sure it is the government's responsibility to encourage or discourage investment risk taking. Investors are not demonized, maligned and forced to pay for someone else's unwillingness to take risk.....They are simply required to pay tax on the income that they make off of those investments. My only suggestion is that there should be no distinction between investment income and other income. The government would not be taking over anything more...just taxing differently.

It's been proven time and again that when capital gains taxes are slashed the government collects a huge amount of capital gains taxes!
FAIRNESS is an idiotic method of levying taxes!
For the few "rich" that do not pay even a normal percentage, and then battle the government for 10 years about paying, there are thousands that pay normally!
For the boobs here that idolize the rapist, who is alledgedly campaigning for "dyckhead obama bin lyin'" even though he has ridiculed "dyckhead" of late, the rapist admitted today that if the FLEEBAGGERS intend to keep spending money the way they are the middle classes taxes MUST be RAISED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!