quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy J.:

quote:

Originally posted by Trans Lady:


Larry , no answer to how the first living organisms originated?

Thought we were talking about evolution, spinning again?

Jeremy, my question has to do with evolution.

Can you give me a source on how the first living cell arise spontaneously to get evolution started?

quote:

Originally posted by Trans Lady:


Jeremy, my question has to do with evolution.

Can you give me a source on how the first living cell arise spontaneously to get evolution started?

No, abiogenesis has nothing to do with evolution.

quote:

Originally posted by Trans Lady:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Heath:


Why yes Darwin's theories predated the discovery of DNA, but in fact the discovery of DNA precisely and perfectly conforms to and helps explain more fully the Darwinian Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection.

Once again science is in no way, spin, it is again evidence, precisely repeatable verifiably, evidence.

What evidence is out there on how the first living cell arise spontaneously to get evolution started?

Please take note the key word is evidence in my question not theory.

Well why don't we just skip the preamble leading to the arguments from lack of abiogenesis or of irreducible complexity, which is where I am pretty sure you are heading for. I will simple give you a link that provides evidence that the precursors for life, specifically RNA, and therefore precursors of "primitive" living cells, is being produced in an elegant lab experiment from simple chemicals under conditions thought to be found on the ancient earth.

http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=5277

Next I will suggest that you Google abiogenesis and read through the host of hypotheses that provide possible frameworks for use of RNA to bootstrap to self replicating chemicals, sans cell or cell wall. Then maybe Google on cell wall and primitive cells and see what you find there.

Here is another nice link to peruse;
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB010_2.html

In fact really primitive cells were not called cells at all but vesicles, how primitive do you wish to get? Go to the link below for more info about vesicles and how they are being formed today in laboratories.

http://genetics.mgh.harvard.ed...k_2004_COChemBio.pdf

Finely it needs to be brought forward that abiogenesis is something separate from the theory of evolution, further the current lack of defined theory for abiogenesis in no way degrades the theory of evolution and how it works today, no more than the lack of understanding of how the big bang occurred is reason to dismiss the theory of electromagnetism. There is much that science does not know, but science is always seeking answers, and much that religion purports to know supported only by faith, while never asking questions.

The fact that you or I or science does not yet fully understand something in no way means we should run to the ancient fallback position of, if we don't know or understand something, then god did it. To believe in a god in this day, is simply intellectual laziness, for many its too damn much trouble to understand the myriad of things necessary to comprehend why anything is the way it is, when one can simply say, god did it, and have done. No doubt that it would take a lifetime to come close to understanding all that goes into how a primitive cell was first formed, but in this day and age education is such that many of us are capable of understanding the broad strokes of how science works and what it says about cells primitive or otherwise. This should allow anyone who is not willfully ignorant to comprehend that what science produces is truth. The bible does not seek truth, it simply asserts dogma, from an age when every person living, would think even the smallest of our most common technologies as magic or miracle.

So do the citations I have given above, provide some of the evidence you seek, or is, god did it, simply easer to deal with?

God did it is precisely as much evidence as has been absolutely ascertained by any of the evolution theorists!
Until something is proven it is open for debate as evolution versus creative design are STILL open for debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stomping ones feet, hollering loud and often isn't going to settle the debate!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bill Koski,

quote:

Stomping ones feet, hollering loud and often isn't going to settle the debate!

And all this time I thought you liked it like that.

This is entertainment for me, I've dealt with a lot more intelligent devious people, many times on an adversarial basis, than the leftists that lurk here and more than held my own!
Besides, I'm not the one that has been shown to be a boob and resorted to threatening to kick as$!
Wonder who that could have been???????????????

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Koski:
God did it is precisely as much evidence as has been absolutely ascertained by any of the evolution theorists!
Until something is proven it is open for debate as evolution versus creative design are STILL open for debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stomping ones feet, hollering loud and often isn't going to settle the debate!

Oh, and the absolute evidence for your god is what, exactly? You feel it in your bones? Your little toe twitches when the dog barks? Mummy and daddy told you so? The sky is blue and the grass is green? The guy in the little shack down the road that shouts Bible verses at you every Sunday and asks for money so he can spread the word, tells you so? Just what the he11 actually is your absolute evidence.

Evolution is absolutely proven, by mountains of hard scientific evidence, at least to those willing and capable of understanding the evidence.

The stomping of ones feet, is apparently all that you do, as far as I can see, framed primarily as ad hominem attacks on anyone disagreeing with you, about anything, much less evolution or climate change.

You generally neither provide evidence for or against anything, only senseless febrile and vociferous protestations, that you're right and everybody else is wrong, leading nowhere, well save those here about that are nearly as ignorant as you.

Damn, you do become tiresome.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Koski:
This is entertainment for me, I've dealt with a lot more intelligent devious people, many times on an adversarial basis, than the leftists that lurk here and more than held my own!
Besides, I'm not the one that has been shown to be a boob and resorted to threatening to kick as$!
Wonder who that could have been???????????????

Yes, Bill well and truly admits, that he is all p1ss and wind signifying nothing and little else. For him simply replying is good enough for him to consider it great and enlightened repartee.

Be carful Bill, don't brake you arm patting yourself on the back; I would feel bad if you weren't able to type your inane pap.

quote:

Besides, I'm not the one that has been shown to be a boob and resorted to threatening to kick as$!

Oh to be so lucky!

"STONER BARRY" sent me the January tire pressures for the Caddy and the right rear is three (3) pounds high!
"STONER" won't be sending the FBI after me for trying to exceed my alloted gas mileage will he?

quote:

Oh, and the absolute evidence for your god is what, exactly?

Seen any heat lately? You don't have to see the evidence to know that it is there!!

Zell/Granny 2012

Send Your Thanks To the U.S.Military

Post a Message to our Soldiers

Of all the things I've lost,
I miss my mind the most
Grandpa Bob
Professional Fence Hanger / Spectator
Former Crew Chief
Grandma's Rocking Chair

Extended cold could kill invasive iguanas

With this week's evening temperatures falling toward the upper 30s, strange fruit may drop from South Florida trees: non-native, invading iguanas that many residents consider more pest than pet.

"It's a big deal for me," Jessica Morgan, a Margate homeowner, said as she watched a yard-long, bright orange male iguana roam near her butterfly habitat. The reptile has a slightly smaller green girlfriend.

"They climb up on the bank and will poop on my dock," she said. "Fingers crossed that this cold snap will kill them. I don't have the heart to beat one to death. I hope the weather does it for me."

Iguanas become immobilized when the temperature drops into the 40s, as it did Sunday night, said Tiffany Snow, nuisance-wildlife biologist for the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. While they usually revive when the temperature rises, they could die if it remains below 40 degrees for three days or so, she said.

Snow said the largest number of nuisance calls seem to come from Boca Raton.

In early 2007, Boca Raton's City Council found it would cost millions of dollars to rid the city of iguanas and sought trappers to catch the lizards in a humane way. Just two companies came forward. To save costs and still aid residents, the city put extensive information about getting rid of iguanas on its website.

Lauderdale-by-the-Sea commissioners approved $5,000 in October 2008 for a trapper to eradicate the foliage eaters there.

"That worked out real well, but new ones came back," said Commissioner Birute Ann Clottey. "One homeowner had 28 iguanas taken from her yard."

Clottey said it will be nice if the cold weather saves the town some money.

"A lot of my neighbors will be happy," Clottey said.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/ne...0104,0,5045045.story

Gore on Carbon







Zell/Granny 2012

Send Your Thanks To the U.S.Military

Post a Message to our Soldiers

Of all the things I've lost,
I miss my mind the most
Grandpa Bob
Professional Fence Hanger / Spectator
Former Crew Chief
Grandma's Rocking Chair

Now with the economy teetering on the edge of depression the left-wing epa is proposing new environmental rules that will cost business and local governments millions of dollars!
These marxist/communists have to be intentionally trying to drive the nation into a depression to make it simpler to enact their marxist agenda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Has anybody heard anything about the hole in the ozone layer of late?
Wasn't that the bugaboo that was going to wipe us all out not that long ago?????????????

hey selective memory bill
the slide in the economy started on 2007
wake up rip vanwinkle it's 2010 and most economic indicators are up.
and just to proove it knucklehead.
post a link to ANY major corporation officer that thinks it not?

i'll be looking forward to NOT being able to back up your B.S.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Koski:
Has anybody heard anything about the hole in the ozone layer of late?
Wasn't that the bugaboo that was going to wipe us all out not that long ago?????????????

HEY BILL i think catalyic converters caused that.
remember?

quote:

the slide in the economy started on 2007

It started in mid 06/


wake up rip vanwinkle it's 2010 and most economic indicators are up

Indicators are being fed by a false economy "again"

I'm done refuting the litany of lies the loony lefties keep reciting!
They hear some left-wing main stream moron media whack job spout the lie and they take it as gospel and just keep chanting it even though they have to know it is a lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Certainly they couldn't do something simple like going to the treasury web site and finding that the national debt grew every year there was supposedly surplus!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Koski:
I'm done refuting the litany of lies the loony lefties keep reciting!
They hear some left-wing main stream moron media whack job spout the lie and they take it as gospel and just keep chanting it even though they have to know it is a lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW THATS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO ON HERE!
YOUR THE GRAND POOBA of spreading lies!