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Turbo bracket cars anyone
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DRR Sportsman
Picture of TomR
posted
Just wondering if you all have seen any bracket cars running turbos at your local tracks? I've seen superchargers and prochargers forever now, just no turbos.

Been kicking around the idea of converting my 98 Camaro into a bracket car. My thinking was leave with no boost and have it come in down track to mess up closing rates at the finish line.

What do you guys think? Worth looking into or waste of time? Would use a Holley HP or Dominator setup for the injection and there are multiple ways to control the boost for staging and down track. Time vs boost, gear vs boost etc.


72 Nova "Hooptie"
 
Posts: 731 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: June 20, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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If you want to win, stay with a n/a single carb combo otherwise you're just wasting time, fuel, $ and in the way.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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My dad tried it once. The hardest thing for him was staging. He mats it like a pro stock when both stage bulbs come on, so the car would leave at different boost numbers obviously.

Obviously this could be fixed with a timer easily.

He only made about 3-5 passes and never got a clean one, due to the car unloading at half track. (To be honest, I think the pull scared him, and he used it as an excuse to give up on it). But that 1 pass with a 388" motor and 88mm single turbo to about 400' was 5.70 @ 135 mph.

I'd say lined out it would have easily been going Low 5.0 high 4.9 at 150 or so. Definitely would look weird at the big end when running a fast dragster. You basically would be diminishing the perception of their rate of closure.
 
Posts: 664 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Turbo is great for many forms of drag racing, but bracket racing isn't it.
 
Posts: 286 | Location: Midwest  | Registered: January 12, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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A guy by the name Dan Naylor from California won top dragster points in his two turbo LS based dragster last season. Basically bracket racing.

I have had twins on my car for two seasons, and when I leave it alone, it's a very consistent 7.30's car. Just like any power adder, as you push it harder, more things break. I'm through with the 6's for now. Just too much wrench turning. Will probably dial it back to mid 7's and just bracket race it instead of doing the q16 stuff in our area.

My experience is that keeping boost below 16 psi (which about doubles engine power output for reference), is helpful. Keeping turbo size reasonably small (but large enough to avoid large backpressure issues), really eliminates the need for funky staging routines. I use an SLE for staging anyhow. So I consistently go WOT 1.1 seconds before launch anyhow.
CO2 boost management is key to being consistent. As is a high quality wastegate. Command only the boost you know you can make every time. That goes for launch, and down track. If you command more than you can provide, you will get inconsistency. Launch is critical there.

You didn't mention fuel. Methanol no intercooler needed. Gas you need one. E85 it depends.

When you command your atmosphere everywhere in the run, my experience is that the results are quite consistent. Why don't you see a lot of them? Because you don't see a lot of them. LOL. And also, to do it successfully, you really do need to be on EFI. Not many want to learn that. And also, if you stay methanol for the simplicity of plumbing, you need monster injectors if you are making any kind of power. And those get spendy. A gas with intercooler setup could be the lower dollar ticket.

Converters are somewhat important and specific as well. But there are ways around some of those issues. If you really need more boost and rpm staging, dump valves are on a lot of cars now.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6348 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
My thinking was leave with no boost and have it come in down track to mess up closing rates at the finish line.



Since you are going to leave with no boost it might be worth a try. Otherwise, IMO not going to repeat.
 
Posts: 671 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: April 26, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Kelley:
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
My thinking was leave with no boost and have it come in down track to mess up closing rates at the finish line.



Since you are going to leave with no boost it might be worth a try. Otherwise, IMO not going to repeat.


It's ok to leave on boost. But it has to be the same boost every time.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6348 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Elite
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again, just wasting time, fuel, $ and in the way
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of NC3x58
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It'd definitely something you can play with.. There's certainly proven N/A combos out there that are as consistent as they come and they can be had for cheap at times. But if you literally just want something to play with to keep yourself occupied, go for it. It can definitely be done well.


Nick Craig

1971 Camaro Split Bumper
376ci LS3
 
Posts: 410 | Location: Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
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Theres several T/S guys trying it. I kinda lost track when covid shut stuff down. The trick is to be able to build boost very quickly. I have a very smart turbo radial customer that always try's to talk me into going turbo. I don't think it would be overly difficult to keep consistency in the mid to lower 4 second range as long as you can spool up very fast.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
Theres several T/S guys trying it. I kinda lost track when covid shut stuff down. The trick is to be able to build boost very quickly. I have a very smart turbo radial customer that always try's to talk me into going turbo. I don't think it would be overly difficult to keep consistency in the mid to lower 4 second range as long as you can spool up very fast.


It's all easier if you don't need to rotate the earth at the launch. It's easy to always leave with 5 psi. 15 psi and you have to start doing things to build boost. The less boost that is needed, the easier everything is. Under 16 psi and the world is pretty simple. At just 8 psi you have increased hp output 50%. And no headaches to deal with. A small turbo that is only expected to make 10 psi will light like flipping a switch. But everybody wants to rotate the earth.

Nobody, and that is a NOBODY should try to bracket race on a combo that needs to use a bump box. That is an invitation to every racer d1cking with you in staging, and you will deserve every ounce of it. My rt's are every bit as consistent and competitive as any n/a car. It's all in the setup.

Now for footbrake racing? That's gonna be tricky IMO.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6348 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Big Steve
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If you rip the throttle down track wont you lose boost?
 
Posts: 2390 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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The output of a turbo is infinitely variable from the speed of the crankshaft exacerbated by the efficiency of the tune and weather conditions. You'll need to have a Dragy to know if your taking too much....

For the trouble of turbskies I think I would rather spend my money on something driven with a rubber band.
 
Posts: 182 | Location: Rock><Hard Place | Registered: February 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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No boosted expert here but the key would be to leave with the same boost on each run. Last weekend at Atco's D1 race I spoke to Steve Everett who recently switch to a dual tubro deal. He went with duals for two reasons, cost of 2 small ones was much cheaper than one large one and the two small ones spool up quickly. This is in his TD dragster. I don't think any combo is impossible to get it to run consistent but some sure do take lots more effort and knowledge than others. If you can balance going fast with consistency, it can be done but once you want to or need to go fastest, that's a different story!!!
 
Posts: 2139 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
Picture of TomR
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Right now, the car is a street car. Built, iron block 6.0 with a 76mm single turbo can handle 16lbs of boost. Turbo 400 trans, PTC converter, Strange 12 bolt with spool and axles.

It needs an engine management system so thinking Holley HP or Dominator. Will use Holley 120lbs injectors. Alcohol or E85, gas goes in the lawn mower.

Don't plan on running it on the street so figured making it a bracket car. I want it to leave like a turd and just run mid-6's with big MPH.

Just thinking out loud for now.


72 Nova "Hooptie"
 
Posts: 731 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: June 20, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I think there are two different schools of thought here. The OP asked about converting a street car to compete in bracket racing to which I don't feel that's the best option.

The other school of thought is Top Sportsman/Top Dragster in which is a totally different animal and with engine management race designed controls to operate it, it would be a completely feasible option.
 
Posts: 286 | Location: Midwest  | Registered: January 12, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of 1leg
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Any combo can be made repeatable with time and effort. Some combos will take less time and effort. It's upto the guy paying the bills to decide how much time and effort they want to spend.

I suspect a turbo bracket car will take more time and effort then most other combos.

Not everyone wants a pay and play dragster.
Good Bless America


Meziere Tech.
Make sure your water pump is on whenever you check your coolant level.
 
Posts: 233 | Location: Escondido | Registered: July 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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but everyone wants to WIN! countless door cars WIN with a n/a combo but a turbo bracket ain't a winning combination.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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quote:
Originally posted by Big Steve:
If you rip the throttle down track wont you lose boost?


the throttle blade controls the boost. Yes, the output from the turbo falls with reduced exhaust pressure and increased cold side pressure, which slows the shaft. But at finish line rpm, it comes back almost immediately. I have modified how a rip on the big end a little.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6348 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 1leg:
Any combo can be made repeatable with time and effort. Some combos will take less time and effort. It's upto the guy paying the bills to decide how much time and effort they want to spend.

I suspect a turbo bracket car will take more time and effort then most other combos.

Not everyone wants a pay and play dragster.
Good Bless America


Yes but I will modify that a little. An EFI car takes more time to tune. That's where 90% of the work is IMO. The turbo really isn't that complicated if you choose the size wisely.

One of the really slick things is being able to change tunes with nothing more than a few keystrokes. I can kill easily .75 seconds with the tune by just reducing boost. Getting all the data points takes time. But if you just leave it at one boost level, sneaking up on the tune is really a couple trips to the track. And just like every power adder, ya gotta watch the plugs.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6348 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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