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No Tech - Part 2
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DRR Sportsman
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Safety is IMPORTANT. That I think everyone can agree on. How it's administered and monitored involves a lot of details that there will be much debate on.


BG
 
Posts: 757 | Location: Florence, SC | Registered: August 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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There’s no debate, it’s not up for a vote! The rules are set forth by the sanctioning body, the NHRA. IF licensed, you agree to comply with them or suffer the consequences which include DQ, suspension, fine, damage to your and/or your competitor’s car, serious injury to you and/or your competitor, lawsuits or death!!
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Uh huh. Ok.


BG
 
Posts: 757 | Location: Florence, SC | Registered: August 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Goob
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
The 2-3 year certs are a money grab for the manufacturer.

Factory seat belts have a UV coating on them so they last the lifetime of the vehicle. The seat belts having to be replaced every 2 years, you can thank Bill Simpson for that one. He refused to put the UV coating in the belts because he would only sell one set per car.


It's not that simple, there is a lot going on in a racing (and O.E.M.) restraint system.

The part of the system that is most important in a crash situation is not visible.
The outer cloth cover is just a cover, and grip for the adjusters. The fiber inner belt is engineered to give enough to minimize the trauma to your body in high G-load mishaps.

Beside that, if "they" weren't able to sell the volume of restraint systems because of rules, you'd really cry about the price. I can remember when an actual racing harness setup was quite expensive, and most racers opted for military surplus equipment.

I'm okay with it, I've had belts that looked terrible and were slick at the clutch points because of lots of use in 2 years. I wear them really tight.
I have $150 to spend for new.

Dale Earhardt's death brought a lot of research action and I was fortunate to see some of the results presented by the experts from GM, Chevrolet, and the Corvette teams.


"Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular."
Dave Cook
N375
 
Posts: 1565 | Location: Indy | Registered: November 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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I seem to recall that Dale Earhardt wasn't using his belt system correctly.
No brand or level of safety equipment can save you if you don't use it properly.


.
Dave



F J B

 
Posts: 4436 | Location: Earth | Registered: February 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Floyd Staggs
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I send mine back to Crow every 2 years to recert.
 
Posts: 4814 | Location: Cucamonga, Ca | Registered: May 28, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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I recall that it was reported that Dale Earhardt wasn't in his harness and that it was known by other drivers that he regularly released it .
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
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Having owned and managed both dragstrips and a circle track I can sort of help here, maybe.
You can have all the rules you want, NHRA, IHRA for drivers and cars. Same for track liability insurance coverage, they must meet requirements of the insurance company, the NHRA and IHRA have little or nothing to do with the tracks that do not hold a divisional or national event.

A car might have all the best safety equipment, a good driver on safe track but....NOTHING requires the driver to tighten the seat belts properly, get the helmet properly fitted, prevents them from not torquing rear wheel lug nuts, unhooking HANS teathers so they can look back or anything else. Those are personal choices, not really smart choices, but none the less they made them.
The track insurance is on the hook for any claim, seat belts loose, etc, etc. The track can be held accountable for some of it outside policy limits for example; no proof of attempts to tech cars, check drivers for driver license or competition license where required, letting unauthorized people into restricted areas set by insurance company, etc.
Insurance company will do all it can to spread out the cost of a claim, no exceptions.

The Release of Liability we all sign going in the Pit Gate is pretty much useless, legally, but it is an attempt to show the people entering it is a dangerous place and they assume responsibility and will hold the facility harmless. (By the way, we have been to court with that Release and found out that without witnesses of signature and notarized for each signature, you cannot sign away your right to have an accident or make a claim.)

Comes down to common sense and respect. Respect for the Rules and the Driver in the other lane. One of the biggest claims we had was a 13 year old driving a golf cart and caused a personal injury. Number one the golf cart owner was liable, the track owner (my company) and General Liability Event Insurance Co (NHRA was also mentioned in the lawsuit as the injured was looking for deepest pockets) was liable for allowing the incident to happen and the Release Form had ZERO effect on the settlement. Insurance company was all about getting settled before the judge was involved as was NHRA. It was settled out of court, imagine the ripple effect if the Releases we all sign were found VOID in a court of law? Without that layer of protection, do you think the owner of a track would risk losing the property over someone who unhooked their certified belts and crashed and maybe took out the other car as well?????

Jok


www.trailertoad.com designed by racers for racers.

 
Posts: 1215 | Location: Janesville, IA | Registered: December 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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I see some kids driving Jr Dragster, they get in all their safety equipment, then they tow up to staging lanes, strap in and race. Then they take all the safety stuff off and race around the pits in a razor or quad.......


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 3931 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of 67TSCHEVY2
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The same places we race at and trust the cars to be safe are the same places we trust no cheating in various forms .... Yep keep on buying that bullsheet lol
 
Posts: 1229 | Location: middle georgia | Registered: July 20, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Goob
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quote:
Originally posted by imakehp:
I seem to recall that Dale Earhardt wasn't using his belt system correctly.
No brand or level of safety equipment can save you if you don't use it properly.


Beside the point, the research that went on in the aftermath is what I'm talking about.

Yes, Dale's seat was an old piece of crap sprung seat that he personally mounted in the car, and YES, he also mounted his belts incorrectly. Bill Simpson told him every time he saw him to get smart and do it right.

He also set a track record at Watkins Glen, driving with one arm because of injuries.


"Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular."
Dave Cook
N375
 
Posts: 1565 | Location: Indy | Registered: November 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of SC4400
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The seat belt rules came in to place after Lee Sheperd was killed in Oklahoma. Until then 2 inch belts were the rule. He went out through the windshield. Many various rumors over the years as to whether he was in tight, or even belted at all. But THAT is when the 3 inch/ 2 year rule was implemented.

Deist rewebs mine in color for 65$ each. NBD. Which is why I don't have throwaway Simpson belts.

RIP


It's a dangerous time in America. The communists are inside the gates.
Our survival is not guaranteed.
 
Posts: 790 | Location: Lake Charles La | Registered: January 29, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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quote:
Originally posted by SC4400:
The seat belt rules came in to place after Lee Sheperd was killed in Oklahoma. Until then 2 inch belts were the rule. He went out through the windshield. Many various rumors over the years as to whether he was in tight, or even belted at all. But THAT is when the 3 inch/ 2 year rule was implemented.

Deist rewebs mine in color for 65$ each. NBD. Which is why I don't have throwaway Simpson belts.

RIP


What is the rule on 2"vs3"? I see a number of 2" in cars...even dragsters. It kind of surprised me.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6325 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Seat belt rules are way behind the times, 2" wide seat belts are now REQUIRED in NASCAR and top tiers of FIA.

The 2" seat belts are now safer due to how they interact with the body (hips specifically) and the ability to work with HANS devices better. Years ago when the webbing was the weakest link they went to a three inch wide belt. Nowadays the webbing is much stronger yet the pundits at SFI and NHRA don't have a clue.
 
Posts: 89 | Location: Inverness, Fl | Registered: November 14, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
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I read an article not too long ago, where Antron Brown was lobbying for 2" belts in his TF car.

It was a really interesting read.

2" Belt Article DragZine
 
Posts: 664 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TomR
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2022 NHRA rulebook states the following.

quote:

10:5 DRIVER RESTRAINT SYSTEMS
A quick-release driver restraint system meeting SFI Spec 16.1 or SFI Spec 16.5 is mandatory in all cars in competition required by the rules to have a roll bar or a roll cage. (Permitted in all other classes.) Driver restraint system must be clearly labeled as meeting SFI Spec 16.1 or SFI Spec 16.5 and be dated by manufacturer. SFI 16.1 or 16.5 3-inch-wide shoulder harness straps folded over and sewn to be 2 inches wide by the original manufacturer in order to fit into head and neck restraint lips/channels are acceptable.

SFI 16.1 2- or 3-Inch Driver Restraint System . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 years
SFI 16.5 2- or 3-Inch Driver Restraint System . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 years


72 Nova "Hooptie"
 
Posts: 729 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: June 20, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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quote:
Originally posted by NortonRacing:
Seat belt rules are way behind the times, 2" wide seat belts are now REQUIRED in NASCAR and top tiers of FIA.

The 2" seat belts are now safer due to how they interact with the body (hips specifically) and the ability to work with HANS devices better. Years ago when the webbing was the weakest link they went to a three inch wide belt. Nowadays the webbing is much stronger yet the pundits at SFI and NHRA don't have a clue.


I always wondered if the extra surface area of a 3" would spread the load out and create less damage to the body. But I didn't think about it for very long.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6325 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Big Steve
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I still request 3 inch belts but the shoulder belts are folded over and sewn to 2 inch wide so they fit into the head and neck device in that area of the belt
 
Posts: 2374 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Goob
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quote:
Originally posted by NortonRacing:
Seat belt rules are way behind the times, 2" wide seat belts are now REQUIRED in NASCAR and top tiers of FIA.

The 2" seat belts are now safer due to how they interact with the body (hips specifically) and the ability to work with HANS devices better. Years ago when the webbing was the weakest link they went to a three inch wide belt. Nowadays the webbing is much stronger yet the pundits at SFI and NHRA don't have a clue.


I think those are 7-point restraint systems.


"Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular."
Dave Cook
N375
 
Posts: 1565 | Location: Indy | Registered: November 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SC4400:
The seat belt rules came in to place after Lee Sheperd was killed in Oklahoma. Until then 2 inch belts were the rule. He went out through the windshield. Many various rumors over the years as to whether he was in tight, or even belted at all. But THAT is when the 3 inch/ 2 year rule was implemented.




Deist rewebs mine in color for 65$ each. NBD. Which is why I don't have throwaway Simpson belts.

RIP


Belts were tight, he and his team did not skimp on safety. The belts failed to do their job. It is terrible we have to loose a life to move safety forward. Asking s o m e racers to police themselves in my opinion is not a good idea.


Raceless in California!
 
Posts: 4429 | Location: Vacaville  | Registered: January 07, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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