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Teach me how to do this cheating stuff.
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DRR Pro
posted
No. Not because I plan to do any cheating, but because "knowledge is good".

First off, how do I consistently cut a reaction time better than it can be done legitimately? I have to assume the key is to take the driver pretty much out of the equation. So what sort of mechanism can do that? Would it detect the lights on the tree? Would it then take over the launch timing? How would it determine the amount of rollout was created during the staging process? Would it actually play a part in staging too?

Next, how do I consistently run closer to my dial-in than can be done legitimately? Do I use something that measures my distance versus time, in real time? Do I use driveshaft rotations or front tire rotations, using a magnetic pickup? Maybe both, in case of tire slip or front tires lifting off the ground? Is GPS somehow a part of the picture? Doesn't the exact placement of the front tire during staging also impact the ET beyond what any counter could compensate for? But again, is there a way to use a mechanism to precisely (and illegally) stage the car, every time?

Would all of this stuff still require a high degree of driver skill? The same skill that is already required to legitimately make these near perfect runs consistently?

Lastly, given a budget of a million dollars, do you think you could put a system on a vehicle to consistently generate near perfect runs (.005 pkg or better), with only a so-so driver at the wheel, just to see if it could even be done? Do you think anyone could? Before you ask, no, I'm not putting up a million bucks. But if you think about it, maybe somebody kinda already is. Wink Take care. Tom Worthington


If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
 
Posts: 1237 | Location: Rocky Mount, NC | Registered: December 01, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Relaxing
 
Posts: 654 | Location: Here | Registered: November 15, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Before I take on this project, can you define legitimately?


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6419 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would have to define legitimately as without using any devices that have currently been deemed illegal. Take care. Tom Worthington


If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
 
Posts: 1237 | Location: Rocky Mount, NC | Registered: December 01, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of CURTIS REED
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I’m a footbraker so what I would think of as a way to cheat would be different than someone off the top.

Which way are you thinking? Top or bottom?



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Posts: 2971 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was thinking top bulb, Curtis. I suspect a lot of potential footbrake cheating would simply be to duplicate most stuff that is legal in Top, but keeping it hidden. Take care. Tom Worthington


If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
 
Posts: 1237 | Location: Rocky Mount, NC | Registered: December 01, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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I won’t go in to details but I have cheated like that before but have had to start losing on purpose to shake everybody off my tail before they protested me. Do you think ten years of losing is enough to get everybody looking at somebody else? Shake head
 
Posts: 2591 | Location: at the track | Registered: May 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
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Lets see...you can always take out one of your eyes and replace it with a glass eye that has a light sensor built in. Have the fake eye sensor use a Bluetooth connection to the transbrake connection (you can use a fake button to not draw attention) Then install it in an EV that runs the number every time...and you got a winner


Burt

I'm So Proud To Be An American And Not A Democrat...

 
Posts: 1225 | Location: Clinton Township, MI | Registered: September 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Hotrod Corvette
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quote:
Originally posted by green1:
I won’t go in to details but I have cheated like that before but have had to start losing on purpose to shake everybody off my tail before they protested me. Do you think ten years of losing is enough to get everybody looking at somebody else? Shake head


Just take a dive in the first round every time...you can't win the points like that...but all the money will make you forget about the points.


Burt

I'm So Proud To Be An American And Not A Democrat...

 
Posts: 1225 | Location: Clinton Township, MI | Registered: September 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Hotrod Corvette:
Lets see...you can always take out one of your eyes and replace it with a glass eye that has a light sensor built in. Have the fake eye sensor use a Bluetooth connection to the transbrake connection (you can use a fake button to not draw attention) Then install it in an EV that runs the number every time...and you got a winner


My original equipment eyes have a light sensor built in. How would having an electrical one work any better? Take care. Tom Worthington


If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
 
Posts: 1237 | Location: Rocky Mount, NC | Registered: December 01, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Hotrod Corvette
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom396:
quote:
Originally posted by Hotrod Corvette:
Lets see...you can always take out one of your eyes and replace it with a glass eye that has a light sensor built in. Have the fake eye sensor use a Bluetooth connection to the transbrake connection (you can use a fake button to not draw attention) Then install it in an EV that runs the number every time...and you got a winner


My original equipment eyes have a light sensor built in. How would having an electrical one work any better? Take care. Tom Worthington


No Bluetooth in the OE ones


Burt

I'm So Proud To Be An American And Not A Democrat...

 
Posts: 1225 | Location: Clinton Township, MI | Registered: September 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Hotrod Corvette:
No Bluetooth in the OE ones


OK. So the Bluetooth is an important part to making it work? I'm not really so much worried about hiding the stuff, I am just wondering how to make it even work. Take care. Tom Worthington


If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
 
Posts: 1237 | Location: Rocky Mount, NC | Registered: December 01, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Forget about the tree sensor the ignition boxes are where to look. Either a matty box or MSD Grid set up properly will control the cars et.


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Posts: 56 | Location: manassas | Registered: April 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by Hotrod Corvette:
Lets see...you can always take out one of your eyes and replace it with a glass eye that has a light sensor built in. Have the fake eye sensor use a Bluetooth connection to the transbrake connection (you can use a fake button to not draw attention) Then install it in an EV that runs the number every time...and you got a winner


I can't believe you would be so insensitive to one eyed racers like the legend Danny Bastianelli. He will now have to go to his safe space due to your very offensive comments. Although not purposely done to win races, i know he will only show you his wooden eye after going 200 mph in the shutdown and $20 to pop it out.


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Posts: 131 | Location: Delaware | Registered: June 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
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Your original equipment eyes are better than any "electrical" device available. Emotions and mechanics are the limitations to using them. If you can limit the emotions and simplify the mechanics(letting the button go when your OE eyes see the light) you'll be accused of cheating. (it's easier to say than it is to do) You also need to stage exactly the same every time and have a car that reacts consistently.


I used to be a people person, but people ruined that.
 
Posts: 225 | Location: Usually home | Registered: January 27, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I used to just "re-case" my MSD 7531 in a regular MSD 7530 case and ride the dots, but I would make sure I still had my regular 6AL mounted on the dash, so no one really questioned it. It didn't really make the car run with .005, but it really helped when the dew settled, or when it was a while between rounds, due to an oil-down, rain shower, etc. I didn’t have to worry too much about the light because it was just street car/no box class so anything within .500-.550 was ok.

Now days I had to get a little fancier, so I have two grids, one in an obvious place, (for tech of course) and the other hidden. I hide mine behind a “false” dash in my dragster. The other one is out in the open with 12 volts hooked up (so the light goes on and off) I only need one coil, I just have several false wires here and there so its hard to track.. The trick is my magnetic collar is on the planetary and in the transmission.. This keep prying eyes from following any wires. No need to worry about the front tires because the back is always planted.. Plus with a 4.10 geared dragster going 5.00’s, there isn’t much spin. I usually dial slow so it can always take timing out, because its easier to take out timing, than to hit it with nitrous.
Hitting the tree is done with a Bluetooth photo receptor, (similar to iphone’s auto adjust feature in bright sunlight) using the air holes in my helmet. I had to take out some of the helmet padding to get it to fit in there, but its pretty hidden. It only activates after I set it (once both staged) so it will only react to the next “brightness”. I do have a light on my dash to make sure it goes off so I don’t sit at the starting line if it misses, so I don’t look silly, I just use the last chance button I have wired to my delay box, in case I need to leave on the third yellow.

Hitting the dial “I tell it” is a little in the future. I just get two baseline rounds, (time trails) and once my grid records a run, I just set the MSD slew (7761) to follow that run. Once its set I can take the controller out. Still not within .005 each run, but it tightens up the daily spread from .03 to around .015. During big money events, I can reset the slew from the last run due to how much time I have in between rounds, but at local events, there are too many people and not enough down time.

Of course I made this entire thing up, because I'm still waiting around for decent weather.
 
Posts: 291 | Location: Midwest  | Registered: January 12, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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quote:
Originally posted by big10pointer:
Forget about the tree sensor the ignition boxes are where to look. Either a matty box or MSD Grid set up properly will control the cars et.


Ya gotta have both parts to make a great package. So don't cancel that eye transplant just yet.

And not all grids allow for riding the dots. The msd products that do are not legal in bracket racing just like a Matty. So ya gotta hide em. Does anyone want to offer how accurate riding the msd dots is in practice?


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6419 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Just checking the main 3 Big Buck bracket racing websites to see the specific rules and this is what I found:

Themilliononline.com actually has the following rules listed, these are copied from the site,

Race Rules:
•All races are 1/8 mile.
•Throttle stops allowed/no stutter boxes.
•Slew rate controls are prohibited.
•Random car inspections may be performed at any time.
•MSD Ignition box 7531 is prohibited.
•Autostart and crosstalk in effect.
•Door cars and dragsters called to lanes separate, first 5 rounds in all races.
•Buy Backs First Round Only.
•All buybacks race each other in a separate round before advancing to second round.
•No buybacks in the Triple 25’s if over 400 entries.
•Two drivers may drive one car.
•One driver can drive 2 cars but NOT the same car twice.
•A car and/or driver can only go down the track 2 times total, entering more than 2 times is not allowed for car or driver.
•Bye run is pulled by random first round.
•Best reaction time gets the bye run after first round (closest to dial tiebreaker).
•(1) bye run per driver unless everyone has had one.
•Bye run carries over into the next round if not used.
•A ladder will start at 8 cars, new ladder each round based off of reaction times.
•The bye run from the round before goes to the bottom of the ladder.
•Diapers are mandatory, they will be for sale and assistance available at the event.
•If it is physically impossible to get a diaper on your car you will be allowed to race.
•If we have a rainout during a round, we will go to the previously completed round and split all purse money equally.
•If you win a round and your car breaks you may switch cars with a race directors approval, if you get caught switching without approval you will be disqualified.
•3% charge will apply to anyone using a credit card.
•All rules and schedules are subject to change per Folk Promotions discretion.
•Quarterfinal or better tech inspections and random tech inspections will be performed at any time throughout the entire race weekend.

Bracketraces.com the Flings website has no mention of rules. The flyers do say random tear downs are possible.

SFGpromotions.com have no mention of rules. The flyers do have some general rules: Diapers Mandatory, Throttle stops permitted, No stutter boxes, Slew rate controllers prohibited, Random tech inspections may be conducted.

There are no mention of using NHRA or IHRA rules. No mention of ET, Track, Vehicle, RT or Tree manipulations being illegal.

So to answer your question the use of a stutter box or a MSD 7531 or slew rate controller are the only things that would constitute cheating.


Lynn Ellison
 
Posts: 133 | Location: The Boat! | Registered: November 29, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Kutsick
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Love it, well said!!


quote:
Originally posted by Tom396:
No. Not because I plan to do any cheating, but because "knowledge is good".

First off, how do I consistently cut a reaction time better than it can be done legitimately? I have to assume the key is to take the driver pretty much out of the equation. So what sort of mechanism can do that? Would it detect the lights on the tree? Would it then take over the launch timing? How would it determine the amount of rollout was created during the staging process? Would it actually play a part in staging too?

Next, how do I consistently run closer to my dial-in than can be done legitimately? Do I use something that measures my distance versus time, in real time? Do I use driveshaft rotations or front tire rotations, using a magnetic pickup? Maybe both, in case of tire slip or front tires lifting off the ground? Is GPS somehow a part of the picture? Doesn't the exact placement of the front tire during staging also impact the ET beyond what any counter could compensate for? But again, is there a way to use a mechanism to precisely (and illegally) stage the car, every time?

Would all of this stuff still require a high degree of driver skill? The same skill that is already required to legitimately make these near perfect runs consistently?

Lastly, given a budget of a million dollars, do you think you could put a system on a vehicle to consistently generate near perfect runs (.005 pkg or better), with only a so-so driver at the wheel, just to see if it could even be done? Do you think anyone could? Before you ask, no, I'm not putting up a million bucks. But if you think about it, maybe somebody kinda already is. Wink Take care. Tom Worthington




 
Posts: 526 | Location: Couch | Registered: January 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Grid doesn’t even compare to the Davis Profiler, just saying.


Chris Walters
 
Posts: 120 | Location: New Whiteland,Indiana | Registered: January 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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