quote:

Originally posted by A39Coronet:
A polygraph relies on self guilt. The rules on big money races aren't specified to the level required to self guilt yourself on a question used in the fishing link.

"Did you commit any tournament violations?". Well, as long as it's not "slew rate or down track timers", then someone using a tree reader isn't lying.

George Costanza said it best, "it's not a lie if you believe it", regardless of the ethics or morals most of us follow.

George Louis Costanza is a character in the American television sitcom Seinfeld, played by Jason Alexander. He has variously been described as a "short, stocky, slow-witted, bald man", "weak, spineless, man of temptations", and "Lord of the Idiots"

So it may expose a cheater, or may not. It may falsely condemn one that plays by the rules. Or it may not. Or it may give a promoter a bs reason to deny payment of a prize. Or not. I think we could agree it's not a perfect solution. Maybe it's the only one.

Polygraph is a preventative measure if the officials bring their polygraph, to test the racer they don't trust.

And the racers bring their polygraph, to test the officials they don't trust.

Then it would be a preventative, as I originally said.

I raced 10 thirty three race seasons in Florida, I never saw a single racer do anything immoral.

I did see officials conduct themselves immorally playing favorites on more than one occasion, as well as occasions not involving my racing.

In fact if anyone wants to make 100k polygraph bet. I'll bet I can pass 100 out of 100 polygraphs Bradenton put Siegel back in the race on a fantasy story, forty five minutes after ruling him loser.

I'd be more worried about the officials than I would the racers, I've never seen anyone cheat I've raced with.

quote:

Originally posted by shooter66:
No Mike I just dont argue with morons who are so far out there its incomprehensible.

Yes you did. Take care. Tom Worthington

The ignore feature works well

I wouldn't take that bet either.

I also bet it'll be a cold day in hell when Bradenton officials pass a polygraph saying officials didn't make up a fantasy story to put Siegel back in the race 45 minutes after declaring him loser.

I'll also bet Siegel can't pass the same polygraph.

The clique got busted cheating, can't do nothing now but hide from the Truth.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,

I haven't been to one of these circuses in a long time. But if house cars is the big complaint (well, it's one of the big complaints here it seems), then what cars do you think would not be subject to a polygraph?

I guess the other thing that bothers me, is that there is a 10-30% chance that my polygraph would give incorrect results. Well damn! If I'm rolling the dice and paying big money entry and finally grab the big win, and the promoter can take away the prize money based upon a polygraph that he pays for, and that is proven 10-30% inaccurate.....I wouldn't go to those races. Plus, the racer that fails a polygraph is forever labeled a cheater whether he cheated or not. Polygraphing a crew of a boat at least gives a spectrum and a better chance of accuracy.

It seems about 50/50 here those who think there are individuals cheating and those who think the deck is stacked. Polygraph only addresses one of those problems.

JMO

Whats funny is this race is taking steps to try and detect or curb the big elephant being talked about "Cheaters". Yet we are sitting here criticizing the method and/or approach. If this is their method (as it is with other sports) and you know about it before entering, then why not welcome it to an extent. Some jobs even rely on Poly tests for employment. If they are doing spot checks, random checks or any type of check along with the possibility of a Poly test then I say bring it on, lets race. If we dont like the methods then why not offer suggestions? Speak as a racing community and send some suggestions to the race promoters.

quote:

Originally posted by Da Shoe:
Whats funny is this race is taking steps to try and detect or curb the big elephant being talked about "Cheaters". Yet we are sitting here criticizing the method and/or approach. If this is their method (as it is with other sports) and you know about it before entering, then why not welcome it to an extent. Some jobs even rely on Poly tests for employment. If they are doing spot checks, random checks or any type of check along with the possibility of a Poly test then I say bring it on, lets race. If we dont like the methods then why not offer suggestions? Speak as a racing community and send some suggestions to the race promoters.

It's not that I am against the Poly. I just think folks need to know what they are signing up for. I don't know how widespread people think the cheating is. But everyone could potentially be affected by the addition of the Poly.

I don't mean to be over the top. But where is the end of this slippery slope? They can take your temp and your ss number already at the gate. Should they be entitled to your medical records? Maybe some mental health questions? What about complete car tear downs? That would be pretty handy at the end of a racing weekend. Maybe spec cars are the answer. Like the old IROC series. What price are you willing to pay to insure in your mind that you aren't being cheated at a money race?

There seems to be a disconnect between the proposed actions to take, and what at least half of the complaints are. If the big complaint is house cars, address that. Seems like an easy solution on that one to get rid of half of the heart burn.

And some say NHRA events are a circus geeze.....

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

I don't mean to be over the top. But where is the end of this slippery slope? They can take your temp and your ss number already at the gate. Should they be entitled to your medical records? Maybe some mental health questions?

Actually, in order to go a certain ET for the HRA's, you need a physical from a doctor. So yes, they do have medical records for licensed racers.

Kinda hard for me to distinguish the house car thing but im not saying it doesn't happen. I can tell you what does and its because I witnessed it first hand out east. The person putting on the event (or track owner) has friends or even an immediate family member thats racing and they are double entered without even paying the entry fee, all buy backs are also on the house. Then they let the buy back racers run right back in with the rest of the field. I think all buy backs should run separate from the rest of the field. I dont think immediate family members should run a race you are promoting and a promoter him or herself shouldn't race their own race.
Also car counts for each class should be announced at the start of each round and the number of buy backs also posted for each round. This way you can easily do the math and see if there are any house cars or people being put back in the race.

There's nothing corrupt about house cars in a race. Bring em on, leave the corrupt officials at home so we can have a real drag race.

To say house cars corrupt a race, is saying all track officials are corrupt.

When they're not.

I have raced more than 60 years and have witnessed a few things along the way. Once at 4 cars I was backed off claiming I had a leak, never had one before and never had one after. Another time in a 7.00 class after I beat the track favorite to put me in the final I was DQed for smoking the tires and he was put back in. I had a 20 light to his 200+ and my car would barely run 6.98 and his would run easy 6.0. See Ya! Another time I win 4th round and get called back for a re-run because I didn't courtesy stage (I was deep staging)you know how that went. Track officials Mike? And I was racing with the "dirty dozen" back then and I KNEW something wasn't right with that crew but couldn't tell what it was. And I will bet its going on now, maybe a little more subtle. I'll be at the WFC this weekend to see if they will let an old guy win a round.

quote:

Originally posted by ferndaleflyer:
I have raced more than 60 years and have witnessed a few things along the way. Once at 4 cars I was backed off claiming I had a leak, never had one before and never had one after. Another time in a 7.00 class after I beat the track favorite to put me in the final I was DQed for smoking the tires and he was put back in. I had a 20 light to his 200+ and my car would barely run 6.98 and his would run easy 6.0. See Ya! Another time I win 4th round and get called back for a re-run because I didn't courtesy stage (I was deep staging)you know how that went. Track officials Mike? And I was racing with the "dirty dozen" back then and I KNEW something wasn't right with that crew but couldn't tell what it was. And I will bet its going on now, maybe a little more subtle. I'll be at the WFC this weekend to see if they will let an old guy win a round.

Anytime anything like this happens you have to sacrifice so that others can live off your virtue, it's called courage. This is the fight for freedom, the fight to preserve civilization.

It's everyone's duty to society to sacrifice. Otherwise the fall of civilization becomes inevitable.

Anytime anyone rolls over and takes it without a fight, it's like a cancer that grows. A snowball rolling down hill straight to hell.

There's nothing courageous about taking it without a fight.

This is where we're at as a civilization in the eight stages in the rise and fall of civilization.

In the real world centralized power ruling class has made ANTIFA and Black Lives Matter their darlings - useful idiots.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
To say house cars corrupt a race, is saying all track officials are corrupt.

When they're not.

Watching First round of door cars plenty of cars with SFG all over them. lol

quote:

Originally posted by RacerVX54:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
To say house cars corrupt a race, is saying all track officials are corrupt.

When they're not.

Watching First round of door cars plenty of cars with SFG all over them. lol

Aren't they contingency stickers?

quote:

Originally posted by sc3171:

quote:

Originally posted by RacerVX54:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
To say house cars corrupt a race, is saying all track officials are corrupt.

When they're not.

Watching First round of door cars plenty of cars with SFG all over them. lol

Aren't they contingency stickers?

Nobody really knows lol

quote:

Originally posted by RacerVX54:

quote:

Originally posted by sc3171:

quote:

Originally posted by RacerVX54:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
To say house cars corrupt a race, is saying all track officials are corrupt.

When they're not.

Watching First round of door cars plenty of cars with SFG all over them. lol

Aren't they contingency stickers?

Nobody really knows lol

Who cares, bring them on, they can take a beat down like anyone else.

As long as officials aren't putting them back in the race 45 minutes after they lose, who cares?

As long as the race isn't rigged in the house cars favor by officials, who cares? Bring em on, the more the merrier.

There's no problem with house cars in a race, the problem is when officials rig the race for house cars.

Corrupt track officials are few and far between.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,