What do you need for fuel pump size? Sounds like mechanical is way to go? Who makes a good primer. I think the examples I saw fell into the ran the motor too rich and don't lean it out or not use a primer. Rusted up oil pumps, broken lifters etc. Obviously not ran correctly. Good thread. Its amazing what a little respect can do for this forum.

It's not complicated, no matter how complicated they make it seem.

Factory condition all steel 69 Nova with roll up windows and triple chrome plated bumpers on a 10" cheater slick (bias).

Bo Laws

SLICKSTER, Very good post about the APD carb and Terminator injection.
There are many advantages to a carb, easier starting and more or less self adjusting to weather changes and no worries about nozzles clogging. When I ran a carb once I got it tuned in right I did not do much to it except blow out the air bleeds with carb cleaner and adjust idle mixture if there was major weather changes. Very simple.
But it is rare that a carb will outrun injection on same motor and there are several good reasons for it. One of the main ones is a carb will have a little vacuum to siphon the fuel. An injection system especially like a hat may even go positive pressure at speed. A carb has to have some restriction to get the venturi effect and draw the fuel.
If you got a carb that runs that good that is definitely how I would go and that is impressive. In fact I would even give up a little ET for the convenience of a carb.

I will say this again. There are many good smaller alcohol carbs 1000 CFM or less but on the larger ones getting the fuel to flow right for the volume of air is difficult on larger carbs and not all have got it down. Now that many of us are running O2 sensors on our cars we are learning more about getting the right mixture.

One other thing about building heat in alcohol motor in cold temps. I will use the leanout to get it warmed up and if it is really cold I will lean it out on return road back to my pit. Get it good and warm then I have some heavy moving blankets and I throw them over it to help keep heat in until next round. That cuts warm up time and fuel wasted significantly. Also starts much easier if water temp is up closer to operating temp. Lucky here in Texas we do not race much in cold weather.

quote:

Originally posted by BG7X77:
What do you need for fuel pump size? Sounds like mechanical is way to go? Who makes a good primer. I think the examples I saw fell into the ran the motor too rich and don't lean it out or not use a primer. Rusted up oil pumps, broken lifters etc. Obviously not ran correctly. Good thread. Its amazing what a little respect can do for this forum.

What fuel pump size?

For me gas or alcohol I want one that flows way more than motor will ever use. I want that motor to have all the fuel it needs and then I tune it from there.
I also HIGHLY recommend a return style regulator, that keeps fuel cool and flowing. It allows the pump to run at much lower pressure so it lasts longer and eliminates any possibility of vapor lock from heat. Think about the pressure, with a Deadhead style the pump is running wide open all the time and at idle it is not moving any fuel. It just sits there straining to move the fuel. With a return style if you set pressure at 6.5 then that is what the pump sees and the fuel is always moving full speed to keep pump cool and last longer. It also draws less amps lowering battery load and that helps you to.

As for mechanical or electric pump does not matter on a carb. Both will work well. Set it up so the pick up is on the back bottom side of the tank so it gets plenty of fuel to the pick up. I prefer a front mounted tank when possible but not required on electric pump.
Be very careful if you have a fuel filter that it does not cause much restriction. I use TWO of the large Smileys Racing filters so there is no restriction. They flow a lot, are Stainless steel element and reasonably priced.

I only have a holley 150. I do have a return regulator setup, and never wouldn't. I dont think that fuel pump would cut it. I assume going to a belt drive would be recommended. I am only asking out of curiosity. Going to run gas for now, spent enough this off season already. Maybe one day I'll try alcohol with a primer system.

I have the same BLP belt pump with internal regulator that Mike posted above. Mine pulls from a cell in the trunk.

I’ve been running the same setup since 2000 and haven’t changed a hose. Just a couple seasons in, I sent the pump in for a rebuild because I thought I needed to. Haven’t done anything with it since. If the engine comes out for a freshen, I’ll fill the pump with trans fluid for the winter. Otherwise it stays on the car with fuel in the system.

During the season I don’t do anything that I wouldn’t do on gas other than getting the engine hot and pulling the breathers at the end of the day. I don’t run a vac pump.

I always dyno a fresh engine so I can seat the rings on gas. Every offseason I put new floats in the carb.

If running alcohol was more work on a weekly basis, I probably wouldn’t run it.

quote:

Originally posted by BG7X77:
I only have a holley 150. I do have a return regulator setup, and never wouldn't. I dont think that fuel pump would cut it. I assume going to a belt drive would be recommended. I am only asking out of curiosity. Going to run gas for now, spent enough this off season already. Maybe one day I'll try alcohol with a primer system.

Drag race results classifieds, just saw this on FB... DEAL

Ya can take all that crap off (reg,bypass,return blah, blah, blah). Simplify

Disregard "setup for BBC passenger side" description, it'll bolt right on.

Curly1 yes agree that carb is simple and self compensating. Although I have been on alky for years I could care less gas,alky,Jim Bean,or Chocolate milk as long as it is convenient and no hassel and works, im with you Curly1. And for the races I was attending 1 time shot first day, then run what you brung for the duration I was more comfortable as could keep an eye out on a couple of other raecers running APD stuff and see if I followed the pattern.Also used racetrack weather.com and loged results.All in all it worked out and although I did not win I hung some rounds.--MIKE REITOW good find on that Bo Laws set up as that type of set up is about as good as it gets. All my Alky experience has been only with belt drive pumps. I shoot for 4.5-6 at idle and 8-11 depending on size of carb thru the run.I either set the floats dry with the bowls off or at idel but bump fuel pressure up to 6.5 to set floats with the window in the bowls and then return the pressure back to the 4.5-6 at idle.

quote:

Originally posted by SLICKSTER:
As adv et 266 stated. That system is super easy on oil and super responsive and the tech support is good also. I have a complete 2100 system in plastic tote with primer that I took of my car and carried it with me last fall to the races I went. 1st weekend with Terminator 2100 car went 5.35 at Kilkare in Ohio.Next weekend Clay City,Ky with new untouched APD 1150 5.349 first hit off trailer.Was totaly taken off guard as I expected to slow down at least into the 5.40s. Thought well maybe first hit at 10:45 am was just a fast hit. .

SLICKSTER.. Are you using the same intake, not removing, for both the MFI and the Carb?? If yes, how are you plugging up the holes ( 3 holes on Rons injector body) in the injector so they don’t leak air into the intake with the carb installed ??

Sorry Markemark I just saw your question. The 4 on each side of the manifold where the injectors screw in is what I think you are asking. I just removed them from manifold and screw in pipe plugs and then put the nozzel jet back in the nozzel body and screwed back on the hoses so I could keep it all togeather as a unit. As far as the primer that is a removable plate under the Terminator so the hose from the primer pump, I also put an AN plug on that so I do not accidentally spray gas out all over motor. Markemark If you were at the track with me and said lets put it back on MFI we would take hood off,take front end off,4 mins. tops for both(63 Corvette). While Im getting the tote with the Terminator from under motorhome you would have the carb off leaving the fuel log on it. I give you the allen socket and you pull the pipe plugs out the manifold and Ill be putting the injectors back in. Index the nozzels and the the primer plate,injector,hoses etc. I use the rons twin gear pump for both carb and Terminator and APD return regulator so pump stays on motor.I put a lot off thought in the swap off and back on so it would be very easy and no stress. Actually after you looked at what I have, I would just be in your way as Im kinda slow so you would say go sit down old man I got this. Oh the pedal stop inside the car is behind the dash, but the fake dash comes off with 2 dzus fasteners, has to be re-adjusted about 2-3 turns in for the MFI and tighten the adj.nut and ready to go.

I got a couple text messages and a PM on this radiator, so here's the hardware list. I bought all this at ACE Hardware probably 20 years ago & the factory Chevrolet Nova 3 core radiator from Modine, new in the box at the same time. Pretty simple but effective way to mount a fan. Clean.



Also, we already figured out a Bo Laws methanol carb makes more power than MFI.

It does seem like often the carb will out perform the injection of any sort up top, particularly when using alcohol as fuel. I'm inclined to believe that it is the extra cooling that takes place with the higher introduction into the airstream. My current setup uses efi low, then enrichment with nozzles high in the tunnel ram ports with boost. I have considered adding nozzles in the air box above the throttle bodies for additional cooling since I don't use an intercooler. But that does introduce the chance that a hickup will split that box too.
Anyhow, just a theory.

I did place a call to James Monroe, and had Aa very informative conversation with him. For a little over 2k I can get everything I need for a top notch system. I think that is a very good price considering the quality of what you get and the level of upgrade it would be for my racing program. I just don’t know if I can justify that expense no more than I race. If not I will just rebuild my carb and continue on with what I have been using. There is nothing wrong with my current setup, I was just thinking it would be nice to upgrade.

Curly1 Blankets yes love it. And also the tranny. You guys have a cold spell down there in Texas at this time but good news it probably wont last long. Looks like Saturday it will start warming up. Hope you and your family are ok and hopefully have power at this time. Wife measured snow here in Ohio, in the back yard was 14 inches in the flat spots and did not measure any drifts.I did not follow as my wife is tall and leggy and Im not so much. Our cold usually hangs around till end of March maybe through part of April. COLD SUCKS and most of my smart friends that can, are out of this area for the winter and return in April.

Mike,

You’re losing a lot of cooling capacity with that fan mounted like that and no shroud but you knew that already. If running alky you should be fine and hopefully the guys asking about it are running alky too. If you’re gonna run gas I would seriously consider doing something different. Been there, done that.

quote:

Originally posted by Cashflow:
Mike,

You’re losing a lot of cooling capacity with that fan mounted like that and no shroud but you knew that already. If running alky you should be fine and hopefully the guys asking about it are running alky too. If you’re gonna run gas I would seriously consider doing something different. Been there, done that.

The grill and front bumper is closed off as well. Only time I run the fan is to cool the engine & transmission when being hot lapped late rounds. The B & M trans cooler is two inches off the front side of the radiator. The fan cools both the engine & transmission.

Yes sir, everyone who contacted me, specifically said they're going belt pump methanol carb.

I'm not saying anything is more consistent than anything else, but this is my roadster, 406, with a Toilet. I also have not not turned a screw or had a nozzle or pill out of this since 2012 when it was in my Cobalt. I blow all the alky out in the fall and put oil in my pump in the fall. Thats it, much, much simpler than a carb.

IMG_20200909_182339016 by neetchracer, on Flickr

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
I'm not saying anything is more consistent than anything else, but this is my roadster, 406, with a Toilet. I also have not not turned a screw or had a nozzle or pill out of this since 2012 when it was in my Cobalt. I blow all the alky out in the fall and put oil in my pump in the fall. Thats it, much, much simpler than a carb.

How the heck did you pick up 5mph 1st round and run the same ET?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
I'm not saying anything is more consistent than anything else, but this is my roadster, 406, with a Toilet. I also have not not turned a screw or had a nozzle or pill out of this since 2012 when it was in my Cobalt. I blow all the alky out in the fall and put oil in my pump in the fall. Thats it, much, much simpler than a carb.

Mike, do you use a PP plate with your Toilet? Air cleaner? Pump, pill, nozzle size?