quote:

Originally posted by 1320racer:
I've got the Wallys and the checkswith my name on them, you got neither, rather got a W with your shyt pile at your duck pond loser!

An event Wally doesn't have any names, just the class. Or at least the ones on my shelf are that way. Great derailed thread!

quote:

Originally posted by DragRaceResults:
I come from out West! I use air filters! For a reason!

High desert wind in Boise can be nasty....

quote:

Originally posted by markemark:
For those that use a K+N type pleated filter, do you oil them with the spray type filter oil and clean them with water based cleaner periodically?

Not more than once a year & it probably wasn't even needed then.

Some carb equipment race cars actually gain power by adding a properly sized air filter, by fixing air flow turbulence. If you do an ABA test and your cars time slip is off. Fire the jack ass that selected the filter and get professional help.
Only your engine builder will know an engine operated with or without a filter. Used oil analysis shows it clear as a bell.

I do not care if you run a filter or not that is not my problem and it is your choice. We still have freedom of choice here. Lol.

Many of the parking lots here are that chi chi rock or reclaimed concrete. When you fire up a motor with down swept pipes it throws up a big cloud of dust and that stuff is terrible. It gets in your nose and eyes. It can not be good for your motor. One track we race at is right next to a dirt track. We do not usually race on the same nights but dust is still bad there all the time. I have seen the wind blow across the dirt track and just bring a huge cloud of dirt and dust right on us.

I hate having to start my car and back up in that cloud of dust. Or dive past the dust cloud when someone just started the car or pulled into their pit. The fact that the cloud is bad enough you can see it or hurts your eyes should tell you something.

The original poster was right, filters, fuel, air and oil filters keep bad stuff from damaging your motor. If you do not feel one or all of them are important or your motor is important then do not run them. pretty simple, it is your motor. Does not have to be a big deal or argument. Unless you are just here to argue and show your Stupidity.

quote:

Originally posted by adv ET 266:
Some carb equipment race cars actually gain power by adding a properly sized air filter, by fixing air flow turbulence. If you do an ABA test and your cars time slip is off. Fire the jack ass that selected the filter and get professional help.
Only your engine builder will know an engine operated with or without a filter. Used oil analysis shows it clear as a bell.

Very good information but I am going to add something here. The K&N type filters flow more air than the paper filters but do not catch as much dirt and dust. Paper type filters that really catch all of the dust would hurt performance significantly. Many of the dragster air scoops are not just to catch air but to turn it, direct it and reduce turbulence.

quote:

Originally posted by 1320racer:
Everyone will do what they want with their car. Me, I've done the back to back testing on all my engines in all my cars and an air filter not only effects performance, it can effect consistency. That said, you won't find an air filter on a Pro Stock car, any heads up cars and most Comp, TS and TD cars and many SS/T, SC, SG, SS and stock eliminator cars too.

Ed, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the statement that many SS/T, SC, SG don't run a filter and that running a filter affects consistency. Our engine builder, who is a 4 time SC world champion (who recommended us to run an air filter), along with Bogacki, Phillips, Austin Williams all run filters and I would say they have had decent success over the years. If filters had a causal relationship to consistency I would guarantee those would be the first to get rid of them. Our cars have been pretty nasty in SC (and bracket trim) over the last several years and would argue my dad's was one of the best on the property wherever we went the past three years, so I also find it hard to believe the relationship between an air filter and consistency is strong enough to prove it affects consistency. That being said, I can't state anything related to performance but Phillips and Stinnett both have some of the fastest SC cars in the nation so I would think .5 mph or less is most likely accurate, more so leaning to the less side of things.

However, I can speak to the fact how much better our engines looked once we started running an air filter. After our first season with the new motor, we took the intake off to have lifters rebuilt and found multiple pebbles sitting on top of intake valves and when that engine went to get rebuilt the bearings looked absolutely trashed with debris going through them (with nothing internally wrong with the engine). We started running air filters and dramatically increased the condition of the bearings when they went in to get rebuilt and there was less debris in the oil when it was drained and filtered. Could it just be a situation of the different tracks everyone races at? Sure, but I'd take a .5 mph hit to prevent sucking down a pebble or spinning a bearing.

Many of the top players in the throttle stop ranks are not running an air filter including at least one you mentioned, saw it with my own eyes. That said, my car is amongst if the best on the property where ever we go. Do what works for you and I'll continue to do the same. My engines have never showed any sign of excessive wear due to not running an air filter and again, a screen stops rocks if that's a concern.

There is no doubt in my mind that an air filter will impede airflow. I'm not a math whiz but, I'm pretty sure an open hole has more flow area than one with a piece of gauze over it.

That said, I run a K&N type filter. It's personal choice, nothing more.

To Tony B,

I use mostly sealed five gallon cans of Sunoco. I have not used a drum since I quit running alky.

I worked on the vent line today. It has been replumbed and once again has a filter on it. Remember this is two seasons so the filter would have only looked half that bad. Yes, I was lazy and should have cleaned it sooner.

My point is still that folks should run a fuel filter. They have a purpose and might just save you a plugged nozzle if you’re running injection.

I wish Ed had been with me on my trip today to go pick up the benders I needed for the vent line. To say it was dusty would have been an understatement!

Vern, I haven't and wouldn't race in a "dust bowl", I value my life, my son's and my equipment. You should be far more concern with the potential for a crash from this "dust" on the track rather than worry that your engine is inhaling it.

quote:

Originally posted by markemark:
For those that use a K+N type pleated filter, do you oil them with the spray type filter oil and clean them with water based cleaner periodically?

I do not oil mine. And although accused before of it being a China filter I machined the top and bottom and use a K&N filter that is a part number for a ‘82 Citation. It’s roughly 9.5” x 10.75 x 4” tall and works very well with no verifiable performance loss on my baby engine. I wash it a couple times a year with Greased Lightening or Purple Clean whichever I have at the time.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CURTIS REED,

Ed

Leaving the prevention of UFO's entering the motor aside... If you have had issues with using an air filter, your using the wrong one or something else is wrong. I will bet you a diner at the Library (Atco Divisional) that my car runs faster with the air cleaner than without and the O2 graph will be much better throughout the run with the air cleaner.

Here's another test for you, run the air scoop backwards on the dragster! You may be surprised with the results.....

Nomad,

Yes, if you use the wrong filter or one that's too small!


Air going to the carb needs both quantity and quality!

quote:

Originally posted by Cashflow:
To Tony B,

I use mostly sealed five gallon cans of Sunoco. I have not used a drum since I quit running alky.

I worked on the vent line today. It has been replumbed and once again has a filter on it. Remember this is two seasons so the filter would have only looked half that bad. Yes, I was lazy and should have cleaned it sooner.

My point is still that folks should run a fuel filter. They have a purpose and might just save you a plugged nozzle if you’re running injection.

I wish Ed had been with me on my trip today to go pick up the benders I needed for the vent line. To say it was dusty would have been an understatement!

I wish I still had the pics of my stuff. It wasn't Renegades fault but they sent me 2 New barrels of 116+ 3 day from KY to WA state on their dime. I know the distributor got an ear full from them.

If a car goes faster with the air cleaner off then the hood is too close to the carb. Also an air filter helps with the fuel atomization. I have also never seen a choke horn milled off make any more power. That was one reason sub stacks made some cars faster. Some people till today also think that polished combustion chambers make more power. Back in the 80's I tested so many carb spacers etc.till you would not believe it. I bracket race. I would run an air filter if it slowed me down. Trash going in a motor will eat rings.There is a reason why filters came on New cars. The factory knew better than we do. JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by TOP38:
Ed

Leaving the prevention of UFO's entering the motor aside... If you have had issues with using an air filter, your using the wrong one or something else is wrong. I will bet you a diner at the Library (Atco Divisional) that my car runs faster with the air cleaner than without and the O2 graph will be much better throughout the run with the air cleaner.

Here's another test for you, run the air scoop backwards on the dragster! You may be surprised with the results.....

Nomad,

Yes, if you use the wrong filter or one that's too small!


Air going to the carb needs both quantity and quality!

Al,
#1 I ain't running my scoop backwards.

#2 so you think I've been using the wrong air filter or something else is/has been wrong on 4 engines...396, 468, 522 and 615 in 3 cars? Not a snow balls chance in hell my friend.

#3 I believe none of what I read on these forums and half of what I see with my own eyes, so you'll have to show me. No need to wait until Atco which may not happen, I'll see you at NED.

Again, you won't find an air filter on a Pro Stock car, any heads up cars and most Comp, TS and TD cars and many SS/T, SC, SG, SS and stock eliminator cars too. Why do you think that is Al?

Fuel Filters:

I filter the fuel through a coffee filter in the funnel as it goes into the cell, then again through a Aeromotive filter before the pump and another Aeromotive filter before it enters the pressure (6.5#) regulator. I also have a small air filter (Motorcycle shop item) on the # 6 (anti roll over) AN fuel cell vent. This is a process I have used for decades and NEVER found crap in the fuel bowls.

Air Filters:

I use K&N air filters, this is my personal choice. I did an experiment at one event, I made several runs with the K&N and two runs without a filter, the split times, speed and ET's were the same. Same D/A, same results. I've sat in the water box at many tracks and been showered with rocks, sand and debris, there is absolutely no way I run my car without an air filter, I've seen what that crap can do to cylinder walls. Removing an air filter will not make you a class winner or World champion but it will increase the machine shop bill when you rebuild the engine. Again, this is my personal choice and not meant to coerce anyone into using an air filter, your stuff, your check book, your choice.

Bob

I have always run a fuel filter but being on alcohol and carbed it was 100 micron but I have never seen anything like what Vern is dealing with.

Very few of us live in an environment like he does so most of our experiences are no comparison. My opinion though is that if you aren’t using this funnel/filter combination you aren’t doing all you can to keep things clean.

https://outerwears.com/products.asp?cat=12845

Best I have ever used.

Fuel goes from tank or drum into 5 gallon jugs then poured in this to fill my fuel cells...





same way I've been doing it for the last 12 years and yearly check of fuel filters, both Magnafuel on dragster and Product Engineering on Firebird is as if it just came out of the box.

Before that fuel was pumped at the local gas station into my gas tank and the yearly check of the Mallory fuel filter and later the Product Engineering fuel filter was again as if it just came out of the box.

Mark,
I clean our K&N filters twice a season, about 75 to 100 runs, we use Simple Green and hot water to clean the oil and dirt out. It is always a bit shocking to see the grit that the filters stop. Let them dry and then we use a light misting of the K&N Air Filter Oil and let it soak into the cloth. If you pump it on pretty thick it gets restrictive.
Out dyno tests showed zero difference in HP with the filtered lids and 7" tall 9" diameter filter on the 565. I run a slightly smaller one on the 406 in S10.
Personal preference but I will take the less turbulent air across the carb and bowl vents but everyone has their own preference.
Also the Oil Samples we send in they can tell when we need to clean the sir filters as the silica content goes up.