quote:

Install a primer plus system

I’ve seen several with primer plus plates under methanol carbs now and understand why. Recently I saw a racer in lanes that just added a supercharger for 2025 and installed the PP plate under his carb. I believe (might be wrong) he said that he is able to fill the carb float bowls with gas using this system end of the day as well but didn’t have my phone on me to see and get pics of how this is plumbed. Hope to see him again at a track to follow up on this for my own knowledge.

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Originally posted by markemark:

quote:

Install a primer plus system

I’ve seen several with primer plus plates under methanol carbs now and understand why. Recently I saw a racer in lanes that just added a supercharger for 2025 and installed the PP plate under his carb. I believe (might be wrong) he said that he is able to fill the carb float bowls with gas using this system end of the day as well but didn’t have my phone on me to see and get pics of how this is plumbed. Hope to see him again at a track to follow up on this for my own knowledge.

Yes! We ran alcohol for well over 10 plus years and the primer plus system was a game changer for alcohol. I’ve said I wouldn’t run alcohol again and that may not be true, but I certainly wouldn’t run alcohol without a primer plus system again. Easier to build heat, start, and at end of the race ran it on gas and built lots of heat

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Originally posted by BD104X:
IMO, starter first & then ignition is just how you start a race car. I don't see any reason why you'd do it any other way.

I would do that with my old 6AL ignition, but upgraded to a Digital 6, and it does NOT like that method.
I've found that you need to cycle the ignition on first, so that it can sense no RPM signal and apply the start retard.

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Originally posted by Goob:

quote:

Originally posted by BD104X:
IMO, starter first & then ignition is just how you start a race car. I don't see any reason why you'd do it any other way.

I would do that with my old 6AL ignition, but upgraded to a Digital 6, and it does NOT like that method.
I've found that you need to cycle the ignition on first, so that it can sense no RPM signal and apply the start retard.

I agree that digital ignition could possibly require ignition ON prior to cranking to initiate programmed start retard…… but possibly not all digital.

Trying different methods of cold (first) starting on methanol is needed to find what works best. I’m not a methanol carb user but think like another posted cranking engine ignition off and pumping 3-4 times while cranking would be good to prime. Then turn ignition on and crank to start.

Here’s another question I have. If methanol carb and mechanical pump, how much initial cranking is required after sitting all week to get the bowls full enough that fuel will flow into the engine when the go peddle is pumped??

The OP has not responded to anything posted, and curious what MSD ignition using. If presently using the old 7AL3 (red) ignition I’d try something else. These 7230 boxes (yes I had one in 2008) were problematic in ignition timing consistency. Introduced in 2014, MSD 7330 (black) replacement was the fix (excellent box).

Mark, I doubt you would ever be able to crank an engine over enough to fill the bowls. Typically sitting for a week if you hadn't drained the bowls there should be enough fuel still in it to get it running. I can usually tell when the pump has picked up it's prime by how the engine sound changes once it's been running for a few seconds. If bowls are empty you pretty much need a little squirt bottle to fill them through the vent tubes otherwise. Kevin

I fought this for nearly a year on a 565 in the early 2000's. I broke so many starters and flex plates I lost count. I had 3 flywheels so that I always had one in the car, one spare, and one in the mail headed back to the manufacturer for a new ring gear to be installed. Same thing with starters, always had 2 spares ready to run. Enderle Hat Tunnel Ram, MFI, alky primer, gas primer, start retard, no start retard, 38 initial timing, no mechanical advance. Ignition on and hit starter, ignition off hit starter, and every possible combination i could come up with.

The repeated kickback and starter/flywheel damage resulted a broken/cracked Callies dragon slayer crank. #1 rod throw cracked 3/4 of the way around the rod journal. Motor was running fine and won a race the weekend before. On this weekend, It kicked back on initial start-up, but i got lucky and did not kill the starter/flywheel. During the warm up cruise around the pits, I felt a very strange 1X vibration in the chassis/frame/drivers seat, but only when the motor had a slight load on it (in gear with brakes applied 2000 rpm). Was worried it had spun a rod bearing, i pulled and checked the pre-screen filter. I found medium sized copper flakes in the filter pre-screener. Loaded up and drove home. Pulled the motor to inspect and found the #1 rod bearing was rubbing the crack in the #1 throw radius to the counterweight.

Fast forward to a fresh rebuild, new crank, same starter, same flywheel, same cam, new plugs, new cap, new rotor, OLD PLUG WIRES, OLD COIL WIRES (there were 2, one under hood, one inside car with coil, MSD phenolic isolator in firewall) killed a starter and flywheel the first weekend out on the new crank and fresh rebuild. I called MSD and mentioned something about my problems, he asked what plug wires I had and how old they were, at this point in time they were Moroso ultra 40's, 3 years old, and about 500 runs. He advised I should change them every year or about every 2-300 runs.

Swapped plug wires with new and coil wires with new and never had another serious problem with kick backs. The swap to 139 Tooth Billet Flywheel and Meziere starter came a few years later and i'll never run another factory GM flywheel/starter arrangement. The 139 tooth flywheel and starter arrangement from Meziere is the cats meow, i'll never spend money on a 168 tooth combo.

My advise is to very thoroughly investigate the health of the ignition system including plugs, plug wires, coil wires, distributor, cap, rotor, box, coil, voltage supply etc. What's happening is spark scatter/crossfire in the distributor for one reason or another, firing on a wrong cylinder in the rotation for some reason, but it only happens at cranking speed. Mine ran fine once up and running but you never knew what was going to happen when you hit the starter button.

Retard disabled completely and it's good now. Labored cranking sometimes but doesn't do all the popping and banging anymore.

Thanks for the tips.

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Retard disabled completely and it's good now. Labored cranking sometimes but doesn't do all the popping and banging anymore.

two more thoughts
38 could be too much total
if 38 is what it likes try 2 deg retard