220 inch dragster what are you guys running for pinion angle sb car only 5.15 ET

maybe 1 to 1.5 *

1.5 degrees for my sbc 4 link dragster

^^^^^This^^^^^^. That said, after extensive research on the subject, I concluded that pinion angle has little effect on how the car works. It's a holdover theory from the ladder bar days, when the angle moved upward from the pinion climbing the ring gear. 4-links should maintain the angle throughout the arc of travel. It's only to keep the U-joints happy under load. JB

quote:

Originally posted by pivotdoc:
^^^^^This^^^^^^. That said, after extensive research on the subject, I concluded that pinion angle has little effect on how the car works. It's a holdover theory from the ladder bar days, when the angle moved upward from the pinion climbing the ring gear. 4-links should maintain the angle throughout the arc of travel. It's only to keep the U-joints happy under load. JB

yup

http://www.competitionplus.com...erprises-and-the-cvd

This is a dragster drive shaft that some racers are using. It is safer, and it allows for you to run most any drive shaft pinion angle that you want

quote:

Originally posted by racerdude2054:
http://www.competitionplus.com...erprises-and-the-cvd

This is a dragster drive shaft that some racers are using. It is safer, and it allows for you to run most any drive shaft pinion angle that you want

Why would running a different angle be an advantage? Seems like a more complicated way to accomplish nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

Originally posted by racerdude2054:
http://www.competitionplus.com...erprises-and-the-cvd

This is a dragster drive shaft that some racers are using. It is safer, and it allows for you to run most any drive shaft pinion angle that you want

Why would running a different angle be an advantage? Seems like a more complicated way to accomplish nothing.

From my own personal experience I have benefited from pinion angle adjustments

Luke Bogacki runs this setup and claims that he is able to run 4 link set ups which would not typically be capable of running due to the pinion angle and u-joint binding on a typical drive shaft and that he finds some of these set ups to be more consistent for him, and at the end of the day safer

I know that some will say that pinion angle makes no difference, but again... from my own personal experience I believe that some pinion set ups are more beneficial to consistency... every car is different of course

Moving the pinion angle does one thing. It either puts the driveshaft in a bind or gets it out. If you move it and your car works better, it's because it as fubared before you moved it. It should be close to 0 at full power.

The below is quoted from Luke Bogacki on September 23rd 2016 in regards to the CV drive shaft and why he chose to use it.

“• A big reason I wanted to switch to the CVD on Jessica’s car is that I typically run a lot of pinion angle on a more underpowered car like this (her car runs 4.90’s) to help the motor drive the tire into the ground down track. I mean a lot of pinion angle. Like, I have to keep an eye on u-joints pinion angle. With the CVD, I’m essentially unlimited on pinion angle; where a typical u-joint will start to wear and fail if it’s in a bind, the CVD offers constant velocity at any angle.”

quote:

Originally posted by racerdude2054:
The below is quoted from Luke Bogacki on September 23rd 2016 in regards to the CV drive shaft and why he chose to use it.

“• A big reason I wanted to switch to the CVD on Jessica’s car is that I typically run a lot of pinion angle on a more underpowered car like this (her car runs 4.90’s) to help the motor drive the tire into the ground down track. I mean a lot of pinion angle. Like, I have to keep an eye on u-joints pinion angle. With the CVD, I’m essentially unlimited on pinion angle; where a typical u-joint will start to wear and fail if it’s in a bind, the CVD offers constant velocity at any angle.”

I respect Luke's experience and knowledge. But we are applying downward force to the rear end from the driveshaft? No? Then what affect is the pinion angle having on "driving the tire down to the ground down track"? What would cause this? From an engineering stand point, this makes little sense. He can do whatever works for him, and he obviously sees a lot of success. But this doesn't make sense to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
I respect Luke's experience and knowledge. But we are applying downward force to the rear end from the driveshaft? No? Then what affect is the pinion angle having on "driving the tire down to the ground down track"? What would cause this? From an engineering stand point, this makes little sense. He can do whatever works for him, and he obviously sees a lot of success. But this doesn't make sense to me.

Amen!

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

Originally posted by racerdude2054:
The below is quoted from Luke Bogacki on September 23rd 2016 in regards to the CV drive shaft and why he chose to use it.

“• A big reason I wanted to switch to the CVD on Jessica’s car is that I typically run a lot of pinion angle on a more underpowered car like this (her car runs 4.90’s) to help the motor drive the tire into the ground down track. I mean a lot of pinion angle. Like, I have to keep an eye on u-joints pinion angle. With the CVD, I’m essentially unlimited on pinion angle; where a typical u-joint will start to wear and fail if it’s in a bind, the CVD offers constant velocity at any angle.”

I respect Luke's experience and knowledge. But we are applying downward force to the rear end from the driveshaft? No? Then what affect is the pinion angle having on "driving the tire down to the ground down track"? What would cause this? From an engineering stand point, this makes little sense. He can do whatever works for him, and he obviously sees a lot of success. But this doesn't make sense to me.

Could the 4-link setup not place the rear-ends pinion facing down into the track, resulting in a lot of pinion angle?

quote:

Originally posted by racerdude2054:

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

Originally posted by racerdude2054:
The below is quoted from Luke Bogacki on September 23rd 2016 in regards to the CV drive shaft and why he chose to use it.

“• A big reason I wanted to switch to the CVD on Jessica’s car is that I typically run a lot of pinion angle on a more underpowered car like this (her car runs 4.90’s) to help the motor drive the tire into the ground down track. I mean a lot of pinion angle. Like, I have to keep an eye on u-joints pinion angle. With the CVD, I’m essentially unlimited on pinion angle; where a typical u-joint will start to wear and fail if it’s in a bind, the CVD offers constant velocity at any angle.”

I respect Luke's experience and knowledge. But we are applying downward force to the rear end from the driveshaft? No? Then what affect is the pinion angle having on "driving the tire down to the ground down track"? What would cause this? From an engineering stand point, this makes little sense. He can do whatever works for him, and he obviously sees a lot of success. But this doesn't make sense to me.

Could the 4-link setup not place the rear-ends pinion facing down into the track, resulting in a lot of pinion angle?

What is the advantage of that?

The only possible reason I can see that changing the pinion angle would do to help or change traction. Is that your be changing the location of the bars pivot point in relation to the housing, which could be what he's experiencing. Pinion angle changes beyond that in a 4 link would have no effect at any of the degrees 360 degrees around the circle.

quote:

Originally posted by Will Harrison:
The only possible reason I can see that changing the pinion angle would do to help or change traction. Is that your be changing the location of the bars pivot point in relation to the housing, which could be what he's experiencing. Pinion angle changes beyond that in a 4 link would have no effect at any of the degrees 360 degrees around the circle.

Very well said.

quote:

Originally posted by Will Harrison:
The only possible reason I can see that changing the pinion angle would do to help or change traction. Is that your be changing the location of the bars pivot point in relation to the housing, which could be what he's experiencing. Pinion angle changes beyond that in a 4 link would have no effect at any of the degrees 360 degrees around the circle.

This. Rotate the bolt forward on the top rear 4 link bar and you have increased anti-squat. Downtrack? Well, I'm a little skeptical about that part.

I 4 linked a dragster years ago and put the top rear 4 link bar bolt about 4 inches forward of a typical setup with 0 pinion angle. With fairly neutral bars (1 degree down and 10 degrees down) I had to run the shocks full tight on extension to keep from crushing the tire. It would actually do a pretty consistent wheelie running 5.0s. Kinda fun.

As far as Luke's comments, seems it would be easier to get a new set of brackets made for the rear housing than risk breaking u joints, but maybe he doesn't understand why it works the way it does.

as has been stated, changing pinion angle as a means to better bite/traction/hit, does nothing in a car with heim joints/rod ends. 1 -1.5 degrees down is the norm for a ladder bar or 4 link car so the angle is neutral under load and many racers obviously still don't understand what it is, what it does or more important what it doesn't do or how to set it correctly.

Thanks for all the information will set it up to be straight under load where I had it.