Trust me, I watch that dude just for the entertainment value.
Anybody who claims that $20 worth of fuel is make or break to their racing program, shouldn't even be thinking about racing.

Same guy comes back after a failed attempt to stage his car....it rolled through the beams because if he forgets to turn off something the t-brake won't engage. I say "you need to fix that", he's like "nah, I just need to remember to turn that off".

I honestly don't know how he gets his shoes on.

quote:

Originally posted by RPROGAS:
My faaariggin' house payment is now less than one (1) 55 gallon drum of C-15...... and I live in California.

Switching to alcohol is lookin' better, better and smarter the more I consider running it.

Bob

Yeah, I feel you there!! Alky will make more power, if your engine actually requires that sort of octane.

quote:

Originally posted by Goob:
Trust me, I watch that dude just for the entertainment value.
Anybody who claims that $20 worth of fuel is make or break to their racing program, shouldn't even be thinking about racing.

Same guy comes back after a failed attempt to stage his car....it rolled through the beams because if he forgets to turn off something the t-brake won't engage. I say "you need to fix that", he's like "nah, I just need to remember to turn that off".

I honestly don't know how he gets his shoes on.

That dude needs to learn what K.I.S.S. stands for. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by BD104X:
I just spray some carb cleaner in the throttle body when it's cold. I have always said that alcohol will definitely allow you to make a fool of yourself more than gasoline... most people's problems running alcohol come from being way too fat or not keeping the engine hot enough. You can go 8 rounds on an alcohol motor that is twice as fat as it needs to be - you'll make a mess of things but you COULD run it that way, whereas the same combo on gas would not make it to the staging lanes for the 1st time run without fouling plugs. Most of the people with alcohol horror stories about crazy maintenance requirements, milky oil and engine damage came from watching someone who didn't know what they were doing. I'm not trying to convince anyone to run it, I'm just sick of hearing about how bad it is... I like paying $4 a gallon and not having to worry about temps when making back-to-back runs late in the day.

Count me in this camp. 10 years since I made the switch, my maintenance routine is literally the same as it ever was, other than getting it hot before the final shutoff, and killing the fuel pump to run the bowls dry. The past 2 years I have not even drained the cell and lines at the end of the season, with no negative effects.
I run Top Lube, but like Steve, I cut the amount in half, (not due to cost, but because it was leaving a bit of sticky or gummy residue on the carb parts). After the change, it has been fine, no more residue, I think the lube Mfrs want to sell twice as much of their product as is actually required. I use non-chlorinated brake cleaner for cold starts, rather than carb cleaner. I just remove the air cleaner, and hit all the air bleeds with a quick shot, reinstall the cleaner and it fires right up. And it has been much more consistent from day 1. And the cooling factor is huge, when racing in Texas heat.

I want a coating of lube left when the Methanol flashes off.

How often do you change the oil and filter? My primary concern is the negative effect on the rings, cylinder walls, etc. While this issue seems to be overblown I still need to ask.

Thanks for any replies.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by RPROGAS:
How often do you change the oil and filter? My primary concern is the negative effect on the rings, cylinder walls, etc. While this issue seems to be overblown I still need to ask.

Thanks for any replies.

Bob

Bob,

Your oil & filter change will be based on your tune & more frequent than running race gas.

As for running an additive to methanol you should be doing it. Your engine will thank you for it.

As for issues/maintenance being over blown I agree but I think some members under emphasize this. There's is a happy medium between the two.

What are your plans for your fuel support system: pump, tank location, lines just to name a few. Maybe I missed it, have you discussed this or thought about it?

My opinion is based off my racing experience with 3 different types of fuels: pump 100 UL/race gas, E85 pump/VP E85 & VP M1. It's also based off your thread & the other Chem Source Methanol thread. Take it for what's worth, it's only my opinion.

2BKING

quote:

How often do you change the oil and filter? My primary concern is the negative effect on the rings, cylinder walls, etc. While this issue seems to be overblown I still need to ask.

On methanol I do 50 runs with a 6 qt oil system on 10w30 synthetic and Wix 51061 filter. Over 1000 runs on this engine presently and runs the same #’s.

quote:

Originally posted by RPROGAS:
My primary concern is the negative effect on the rings, cylinder walls, etc.

Thanks for any replies.

Bob

Bob, I will say this somewhat tongue in cheek. Don't look at your cylinder walls. LOL

If you have never ran Methanol before you will hate what you see. Doesn't mean they are a problem but they won't look like gas cylinders.

I will try to keep it simple.
Been running alcohol for probably 22 years, several engines and combinations, including National and Divisional wins with throttle stop.
I used 7 drums of fuel last season and used 7 quarts of Klotz top lube.
We use block heaters for cool mornings and keep them plugged in if it cool and windy (Iowa does that;-).
Run it as close to 170 going into burnout, engine never sees 190 even on 17 run days.
Ring and cylinder wear might be increased IF your idle mixture is too rich or your needle & seat leaks a bit.
Shutdown for the night or weekend.
We run the engine up to as close to 200 as we can get using the leanout valve,
take air cleaner off,
shut the fuel pump off
and when it starts to speed up due to running out of fuel we spray Klotz Top Lube into the carb until it quits. Then I squirt a few ounces of Rec gas (no ethanol) into the fuel bowl vent tubes and it is ready to go for the next weekend.
Don't have to prime it because the gas is already in the carb.
End of the season, I drain the tank and lines and that's it. I put new needle&seat orings in each Spring and fresh metering plate and bowl gaskets.
If you are going to win and make a couple hundred runs a season, maintenance is required.

As mentioned earlier, I change oil (Amsoil 10W40, 588", 14.5-1 compression in a dragster) around every 60 runs and oil looks perfect. Bearings look perfect after 400+ runs. If you are milking the oil, you are either way fat or not getting up to temperature. When I warm the car up in the morning, I start getting steam out of the puke tank when the temp gauge reads around 150 degrees, this goes away after a few minutes. Obviously if I were to run it below 150 degrees (which would be easy to do on alcohol) that moisture would never burn off and oil would get milky. I use a lean-out valve to get it up to temp & try to stage between 150-155 and am usually 160-165 after a run and hardly ever turn the fan on until the later rounds. It takes a little planning to get it that warm if the staging lanes move quickly but I'd rather put effort into getting it warm earlier in the day and then NOT have to worry about cooling it in the later rounds. After I lose, I shut the water pump off on the return road and let the engine get to 180 degrees or so before putting it away.

Billy, I started running a thermostat in 2025 and it really makes keeping up with the heat a lot easier.

It did find a weak link though when I first put it in I believe. I was running stock blocks and I believe it put more pressure on the water system. I had a 4.060" stock block develop a pin hole in a cylinder wall last November when I put it in, then I had the same thing happen in April to another stock block I used to replace that one. It was also 4.060" just transferred everything over. Finally changed to a Blueprint/Summit block and all good. Plus it's a tenth quicker now.

even in cold weather if the tune is right the car will fire right up. I pump mine 6 times all the way to the floor. Let it set for about 15 sec. Crank the car and then hit ignition and it starts right up. At worst you might have to do it again and that is in super cold 45* air.

Most people dont put enough in and or dont let it set and evaporate.

I have a clearview filter and it will turn the oil milky for the first startup but I let the car heat to 190-200 on the first startup and by the end of that startup oil will be back to normal. I drain the catch can after that first start and get about 1/2 cup of water. After that it will not get any more.

Here’s a suggestion that some didn’t need to do when switching from gas to methanol. The size of your cooling system (radiator) could possibly need to be downsized when switching from gas to methanol.

An indicator of this might be the need to keep the lean out valve open traveling to and while in staging lanes prior to heading into the water box. Depending on what temp you desire the engine to be on the starting line, the cooling system size and idle fuel mixture (O2) can/ will be used to achieve this.

My starting line temp preference is 173* -175* and running as high as low 180’s is no different in performance. This cooling system will achieve the desired starting line temp and uses the fan to control and maintain the desired temp. My fan is always running (and sometimes but seldom cycling, it’s automatic) on the starting line to maintain temp. Something to consider.

I have a couple pieces of plastic that I put in front of the radiator when the weather is cold to block some of the air flow. I also switch it back to gas when it's really cold (high in the 40's).

The extra maintenance isn't bad. Oil needs to be changed around 50-60 runs with a vacuum pump. More frequently without IMO. I also drain the carb and pour some race fuel down the vent tube when not racing for more than a week.
I have to spray the throttle shafts with a rust protectant or they start to rust and stick.

The biggest pain point for me is the extra fuel. I bring 25-30 gallons of alky to the track and have come close to running out if I have a really good weekend. Also dealing with moving around 3-4 drums per season hurts my back just thinking about it.

Switching to alky was the best thing I ever did for my program. Car was substantially quicker and faster, despite having a VERY GOOD tune on carbs and gas....I agree I haven't had any more maintenance than I did on gas. Zero problems with milking the oil, I do use a primer to start when cold. I also run MFI, I do know carbs start a bit easier.

As to the statement about the more efficient an engine is....wow, I've argued this one more than I can say. IT'S BS. There. Here's the issue with that statement, and it falls right in line with the other statement that's made which says that the more refined an engine is the more power it will make on gas...also BS. The more efficient an engine is, the more power it will make with less fuel, as combustion becomes more efficient. FUEL MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. Most cars will go faster with alky due to the way it burns and how it makes significantly more power than gas earlier in the rpm range. While many will claim gas makes more peak hp, which is also false, alky WILL make more average hp, and that's what will make a car faster on the track. Peak hp is for bragging....and selling engines to people that don't know any better. I will say that an engine will make the most power on the fuel it's optimized to run on, and this is regardless of the fuel. There are so many different blends of gas out there you can switch from one to the other and see a change in performance, but keep in mind, that's only if your combo was optimized for one particular fuel. I have yet to meet anybody that switched from gas to alky and went slower....

I used to run a very well tuned 12* setup, now I'm running a 9* setup, and still on alky. I gained nearly half a second in et making the switch.....and that was the only change made other than timing......

Best things about alky, good luck overheating, isn't gonna happen. Despite using more than twice as much fuel, it's still about half the cost or less to run....it's safer than gas because it's harder to ignite, and when burning, can be put out with water. Try that with gas.... it isn't affected nearly as much as gas is when the temp of the day changes, but it doesn't like water so if it goes from a very dry day to very humid, it will affect alky more than gas....

Rubber hoses will dry out and need replaced, perfect time to upgrade to ptfe lines and they will outlast your car.

There's more but that gives you an idea. I know some of you are going to slam me for some of this and that's ok. I did a metric f*** ton of research long before I ever pulled the trigger on the switch, and talked to more people than I can count. I wouldn't have spent the money on an entirely new fuel system if I didn't think the benefits outweighed the risks, and they did, by a huge margin....

quote:

I wouldn't have spent the money on an entirely new fuel system if I didn't think the benefits outweighed the risks, and they did, by a huge margin....

Agreed… and this is one of the main reasons I went from MFI to EFI on methanol, and yes it was more expensive initially.