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16 volt battery. Again
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DRR Sportsman
Picture of FootbrakeJim
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
My main concern is what gives me most starts before it is dead.

My thinking here and I may be wrong but Cold Cranking Amps equals more starts (what I need) and 16 volt spins it faster.

Bruce, I don't think this is the case, (though I am not a battery engineer). My understanding has been that Cold Cranking Amps is only an "instantaneous" measurement of peak amps available at the flip of the switch. (Basically a factor in the amount of torque your starter will have to spin the load - Higher compression will need more CCA to turn over). Higher voltage, (16 vs 12), is more like Horsepower, it will spin a given load at a higher speed.
But the factor in how many starts you can get between charges is Reserve Capacity. It is measured in Amp-Hours. Most every battery will list this right next to the CCA rating. Think of it like this: If the R.C. is 100 AH, that means it can sustain a load of one hundred amps for one hour, or 10 amps for 10 hours, or 1 amp for 100 hours. The more AH, the more reserve power you get. Go to a parts store, (or even a Walmart), and look at the various sizes of 12V batteries. Some of the smaller ones will have surprisingly high CCA, (as much as 900 or more), but very low Reserve Capacity. The physically larger batteries almost always have higher reserve capacity, even if their CCA is a bit lower. (Think of it like Stamina, or staying power). If 850 CCA spins your engine just fine, and you have room for a larger battery, then you might try a conventional, Group 56 or 65 battery, I believe they have the most reserve capacity.


Dan "Jim" Moore
Much too young to feel this damn old!!
 
Posts: 1045 | Location: Farmersville, TX  | Registered: December 05, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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quote:
Originally posted by Cashflow:
Just my two cents but I would do my best to figure out a way to put an alternator on it.

If you do that you don’t need the big fancy charger, you can just use a maintainer. I’ve been using the Autometer and it works great. This is the sixth season on my XS battery.


I had to custom mount low and facing forward mine, and it was so worth it. None of this battery charging nightmare between rounds when we are trying to focus on....going rounds.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6421 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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I have 4 inches between the oil pan and frame rail so it does not leave me much room to work with in standard location. Now the 93 mm Powermaster 55 amp alternator is pretty small going to look at their page and see if I can use it. I really do not want to turn alternator around backwards as if it is not lined up perfect it will throw belts.

I do agree with running an alternator and always have but this car does not have much room. Will probably do the XS1000 and charger 16 volt battery for now and try to do something with an alternator soon.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4060 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Lenny5160
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It seems odd to me that you don't have a workable situation with a single 12V battery, even with no alternator.


Tony Leonard
 
Posts: 3172 | Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN | Registered: March 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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quote:
Originally posted by Lenny5160:
It seems odd to me that you don't have a workable situation with a single 12V battery, even with no alternator.


The car had two of those small Oddessy 170 CCA batteries and they were just too wimpy to start many times. One of the few things I kept from old car. A full size 12 volt would PROBABLY do it even with no alternator but I am not going to chance it.
Going to get the XS1000 16 volt battery and then start trying to find a way to make an alternator fit in there.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4060 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
I have 4 inches between the oil pan and frame rail so it does not leave me much room to work with in standard location. Now the 93 mm Powermaster 55 amp alternator is pretty small going to look at their page and see if I can use it. I really do not want to turn alternator around backwards as if it is not lined up perfect it will throw belts.

I do agree with running an alternator and always have but this car does not have much room. Will probably do the XS1000 and charger 16 volt battery for now and try to do something with an alternator soon.


I get your apprehension about the mount, as it is exactly what I had. My box pan made regular mount next to impossible. But really the backward mount is about as stout for a mount as the regular mount. I haven't thrown a belt yet. I shimmed it til it eyeballed well, and let her rip.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6421 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of CURTIS REED
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
I really do not want to turn alternator around backwards as if it is not lined up perfect it will throw belts.



Straight is straight whether forwards or backwards the belt needs to be aligned. I've been running the same Denso style super mini backwards with zero belts thrown for 8 years. I made my own mount but is is similar to the ones you can buy but slimmed it down since this pic. You can get the same alternator in 16v.



Curtis



____________________________
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Posts: 2981 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Picture of Curly1
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Where your vacuum pump is where my mechanical fuel pump is. Where you mounted the alternator is where my vacuum pump is so I can not do it like that.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4060 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of KWig
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Curly, can you use one of these, since your space limited ? Or similar ?

https://www.summitracing.com/p.../mor-63819/overview/


You have to put in the effort, to get anything out of it.
 
Posts: 736 | Location: Cumming Ga | Registered: January 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of CURTIS REED
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
Where your vacuum pump is where my mechanical fuel pump is. Where you mounted the alternator is where my vacuum pump is so I can not do it like that.


Oh I wasn't suggesting you do it like mine is. Just that backwards is no different than forwards as far as belt issues. One thing to consider is a remote water pump, Dedenbear style water manifold and mounting it where the water pump motor is normally. Or a very short belted mount right below where my alternator is.

We had a dragster once that had the mounts coming off of the cars frame rail instead of the motor in the place I just mentioned below my alternator.

Curtis



____________________________
2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion

2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
 
Posts: 2981 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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quote:
Originally posted by KWig:
Curly, can you use one of these, since your space limited ? Or similar ?

https://www.summitracing.com/p.../mor-63819/overview/


I do not have that band water pump and my vacuum pump is a GZ Motorsports and I do not think it would work with that one to. Plus with my fuel pump on left probably it would hit to.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4060 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Wallace Cleaver
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I run a single 12v Optima Red top in my car. No alternator. Start and drive it to the lanes and back. Mechanical injection that sometimes takes a little patience to start. Grid ignition. I made 3 passes in 40 minutes a few weeks ago. Water pump and fan running almost continuously. On charger for maybe 15 minutes tops and my charger is a harbor freight deal. Car started and ran perfectly all night. Not sure what other electronics you have, but I have quite a bit and my Optima keeps up just fine.


Multi-time First round runner up extraordinaire
 
Posts: 38 | Location: UT | Registered: January 01, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
Bruce,

A Shogun alternator will work on a 16 volt system. I have one you can try if you would like. They are pretty small. If I had realized that I probably would not have bought an East Coast but I did and it's on there so it's staying. LOL


Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right. Here I am.......
 
Posts: 5319 | Location: stuck in the middle with you! | Registered: March 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cashflow:
Bruce,

A Shogun alternator will work on a 16 volt system. I have one you can try if you would like. They are pretty small. If I had realized that I probably would not have bought an East Coast but I did and it's on there so it's staying. LOL


How can a Shogun / Kubota / John Deere type alternator work with 16 volts? How are they wired? I had one years ago and it actually worked really good on my 12 volt system. Only reason I pulled it off is because I had developed a wiring / ground issue.
I do have room for one of those and it is better than nothing for sure.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4060 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Elite
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
Where your vacuum pump is where my mechanical fuel pump is. Where you mounted the alternator is where my vacuum pump is so I can not do it like that.


Sounds like my setup. I mounted the alternator very low on the driver's side. Well, I get they are both the driver's side on an altered. I used those two bolts that the motor plate are mounted to in the above picture.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6421 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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Thank you for all of the replies, right now my plan is to get the XS1000 16 volt battery and charger and then continue to try to get an alternator on there somehow.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4060 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
posted Hide Post
Any more information on how the small Shogun / Kubota type alternator will work on a 16 volt system and how to wire it?


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4060 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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The way I understand it is since that type of alternator works more like a magneto (no brushes) that as the RPM increases the output increases also. I read somewhere that it would work with 16 volts but I had already bought an East Coast 16 volt so I just left it on there. It should wire the same way. Data logger should show you what it’s doing.


Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right. Here I am.......
 
Posts: 5319 | Location: stuck in the middle with you! | Registered: March 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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Jegs had the save $30 today so I bought the XS1000 battery and charger and the powermaster alternator bracket. I am going to see if I can squeeze the 93 mm 55 amp alternator in there.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4060 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Big Steve
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
Jegs had the save $30 today so I bought the XS1000 battery and charger and the powermaster alternator bracket. I am going to see if I can squeeze the 93 mm 55 amp alternator in there.


But with 16 volt battery you really don't need an alternator. Just turn your power off when you get back from a run and plug in the charger and you will be fine. I have been running 16 volts and no alternator for 6 years and hot lapped the hell out of it and never had an issue. Also make sure you have the charger plugged in 24/7 between races
 
Posts: 2447 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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