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Struggling with new alcohol setup
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I do not use Pro Systems. How ever I have used alot of different alky carbs over the last 30 years. Pro Systems are on a lot of cars and seem to be just fine. I would not have a problem using Por System as I just havent had the need. That being said they are about 180 miles north of me. Now here is the position I take on all the carbs I have used. Now this is just my 02. I run a belt drive pump. I check the float level with the bowls off first. I visually look at the inner workings and make sure all is tight and the jets are what thay are supposed to be as far as front metering block and rear metering block to make sure a mistake wasn't made I can catch it. Next after putting the bowls back on I will check the squirter pump cams then I bolt it on. I fill it with a squirt bottle slowly till I have fuel at the sight holes. I hit each squiter to make sure its working. I refill to sight level. I check the idle bleed screws and will note where their at. For first start up on a new carb I will turn the bleed screws out 2 turns. I may give the throttle blades 1 turn open. After stert up I will look at the idle pressure and I want no more than 5 lbs. After I gets a little warm up I will turn the idle bleeds back in and as the idle picks up will turn the throttle blade screw back out a little at a time. Now at 160 degrees I will ste the idle where I want it. I will wack the throttle to see it it stumbles. If its real good I may turn the idle bleed screws in a little more. If it stumbles I will go out with the idle bleeds. I like to see idle about 1200 in netural and will drop when in gear. Now the motor should be about 160-170 I will put a 5000 chip and deck it against the trans brake. Fuel pressure with a Domminator I like to see 9 pounds up to 12. A 4150 style I like to see 8 to 10. Then when it is idleing I want to see 5 lbs and will adjust both perimeters as needed. First pass I try to watch the fuel pressure guage after the shift and then close to the finish line. I have been doing this procedure for all the alky carbs I have ever used and have never came across a bad carb that would not run or any problems that would make it unraceable. Now some carbs were more suited than others for my combo but all were raced and then determined from the time slips as to what the motor wanted. I have raced and changed carbs between rounds doing R&D and getting data. Again just my 02 worth. I do not know Patric but I am sure he would want to know. Also I have always FILTERED the alky fron the drum to the jug and then the jug to the fuel cell and an in line filter between the cell and pump.
 
Posts: 318 | Location: ohio | Registered: June 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by CSRacing:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:


So the manufacturer sent you extra blanks, you're drilling yourself?

Do you have a lean out valve you can manually open, on it, to build heat?


I'm drilling myself. I do not have a lean out valve.


Put a lean out valve on it, it'll be erratic as it is now, until you can get some heat in it. Ya gotta get heat in it, to get any kind of tune.

Come back when you've worked on it with a little heat in it, we'll help ya iron it out from there.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Curly1
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Well if the Carb builder would not help you with his carb then you did the right thing to come on here and ask for help.

That is not Blasting him, it is trying to get what you paid for working. Period. You paid good money for the carb it should work. So after 6 months of trying to make it work with no help from builder how much longer should he wait to say something?

It sure looks like the carb is the problem but I always recommend changing a carb with a known good one simply because it only takes a few minutes and can eliminate some variables. If it still does it with another alcohol carb then look at fuel pressure or other possibilities. Most likely it will point right back to the carb as the issue.

I still say it sounds like the floats / Needle and seats may be the issue. Could be a simple float level adjustment.


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Posts: 4066 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks Mike I just take for granted the lean out valve thingeee Didn't think of that
 
Posts: 318 | Location: ohio | Registered: June 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you don't know what to do for a lean out, the valve you see with the red handle next to the shifter, I got at ACE hardware. Run a hose to it 3/8 or 1/2", from the valve to the backside carb, carb spacer or intake.


Start the car, open the valve, bring temp to 160 degrees, then do your tuning after shutting the valve.

 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by SLICKSTER:
Thanks Mike I just take for granted the lean out valve thingeee Didn't think of that


I did too for a minute. No sweat Smile
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
If you don't know what to do for a lean out, the valve you see with the red handle next to the shifter, I got at ACE hardware.



1/4 turn ball valve correct ??
 
Posts: 2508 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
If you don't know what to do for a lean out, the valve you see with the red handle next to the shifter, I got at ACE hardware.



1/4 turn ball valve correct ??


Yes Sir
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just a couple of notes - the secondary sticking isn't too unusual, we make it a habit to hit the shafts with some WD40 - I think the alky washes them and causes the stick. The bowl adjustments are critical, we run electric pumps with returns, 7 pounds and I like to be about dead center on the primary and a touch higher on the secondary side with the engine running. BLP makes some very nice needle and seats for alky in I think 3 different sizes - never have a problem with them getting stuck. If you order them ask them to ship them flat postage - it'll save you a few dollars. Verify that you don't have a vacuum leak as it sure sounds like you do. About two turns out on the mix is usually a good starting spot and on the smaller engines (434 and less) I like to enlarge the idle bleeds and lean out the idle some.
 
Posts: 1135 | Location: The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?” ~~ Captain Jack Sparrow ~~ | Registered: August 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Eman
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Having issues:
I always start the engine and wait 5-10 seconds before turning the pump on. Sometimes I can watch fuel come out of the front bowl vent. Other times it's ok.

This is where I'd start. You should be able to turn the pump on with the engine off and not have fuel come out of the front bowl vent or anywhere.
 
Posts: 1488 | Location: E TN | Registered: February 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by chasracer:
Just a couple of notes - the secondary sticking isn't too unusual, we make it a habit to hit the shafts with some WD40 - I think the alky washes them and causes the stick. The bowl adjustments are critical, we run electric pumps with returns, 7 pounds and I like to be about dead center on the primary and a touch higher on the secondary side with the engine running. BLP makes some very nice needle and seats for alky in I think 3 different sizes - never have a problem with them getting stuck. If you order them ask them to ship them flat postage - it'll save you a few dollars. Verify that you don't have a vacuum leak as it sure sounds like you do. About two turns out on the mix is usually a good starting spot and on the smaller engines (434 and less) I like to enlarge the idle bleeds and lean out the idle some.


Exactly right

If the OP can get a photo of the thing over the top like this, it can be communicated pretty decent, what to do.

WD 40 the shafts in these spots, outside shafts too.

 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by CSRacing:
I've got a 400gph electric pump with a return style regulator in the trunk set at 15psi. The secondary regulator that came with the carb has been set anywhere from 3 to 7.5psi at idle per Patrick.

You need 1 regulator not 2 and if the regulator that Patrick sent you is vacuum reference. Remove it, that’s your issue.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 1320racer:
quote:
Originally posted by CSRacing:
I've got a 400gph electric pump with a return style regulator in the trunk set at 15psi. The secondary regulator that came with the carb has been set anywhere from 3 to 7.5psi at idle per Patrick.

You need 1 regulator not 2 and if the regulator that Patrick sent you is vacuum reference. Remove it, that’s your issue.


It's the ported vacuum reference regulator that Patrick sent. If I dead head my pump it overpowers the regulator which is why I added a 2nd regulator in the trunk right off the pump. The pump has a bypass port so I used that for the high side regulator. Patrick is aware of how I have this plumbed and hasn't indicated any problems.
 
Posts: 73 | Location: Oostburg WI | Registered: October 16, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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quote:
Originally posted by chasracer:
Just a couple of notes - the secondary sticking isn't too unusual, we make it a habit to hit the shafts with some WD40 - I think the alky washes them and causes the stick. The bowl adjustments are critical, we run electric pumps with returns, 7 pounds and I like to be about dead center on the primary and a touch higher on the secondary side with the engine running. BLP makes some very nice needle and seats for alky in I think 3 different sizes - never have a problem with them getting stuck. If you order them ask them to ship them flat postage - it'll save you a few dollars. Verify that you don't have a vacuum leak as it sure sounds like you do. About two turns out on the mix is usually a good starting spot and on the smaller engines (434 and less) I like to enlarge the idle bleeds and lean out the idle some.


I thought vacuum leak too. Took the carb off and inspected, then took the intake off. Couldn't find anything so I put it back together with new gaskets plus a little bit of right stuff on everything.
 
Posts: 73 | Location: Oostburg WI | Registered: October 16, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Top Comp
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quote:
Originally posted by CSRacing:
quote:
Originally posted by chasracer:
Just a couple of notes - the secondary sticking isn't too unusual, we make it a habit to hit the shafts with some WD40 - I think the alky washes them and causes the stick. The bowl adjustments are critical, we run electric pumps with returns, 7 pounds and I like to be about dead center on the primary and a touch higher on the secondary side with the engine running. BLP makes some very nice needle and seats for alky in I think 3 different sizes - never have a problem with them getting stuck. If you order them ask them to ship them flat postage - it'll save you a few dollars. Verify that you don't have a vacuum leak as it sure sounds like you do. About two turns out on the mix is usually a good starting spot and on the smaller engines (434 and less) I like to enlarge the idle bleeds and lean out the idle some.


I thought vacuum leak too. Took the carb off and inspected, then took the intake off. Couldn't find anything so I put it back together with new gaskets plus a little bit of right stuff on everything.


So why lean it out with bigger bleeds then? Just put a damn lean out valve on it, and start over.

You're wasting energy thinking about it until you can observe heat in the temp gauge, and make adjustments.

You're not learning anything about the carb, unless the engine has temp. Methanol is a completely different animal than gasoline.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Change your oil too, before proceeding.

Pull it outside when you're working on it.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Get rid of the vacuum regulator!! That’s your issue. Install 1 bypass regulator from Magnafuel or Product Engineering.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Make sure the booster aren't pouring fuel down the throat at any point when it's running.

You'll know the floats and fuel pressure is right when you can rip the throttle open with the lean out slightly open, and no more than one or two drops come off the booster.

Could be the regulator. If you see fuel pouring down off the booster, shut if off and work on the floats and regulator (fuel pressure).
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 1320racer:
Get rid of the vacuum regulator!! That’s your issue. Install 1 bypass regulator from Magnafuel or Product Engineering.


Will do. What pressure setpoint?
 
Posts: 73 | Location: Oostburg WI | Registered: October 16, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
Make sure the booster aren't pouring fuel down the throat at any point when it's running.

You'll know the floats and fuel pressure is right when you can rip the throttle open with the lean out slightly open, and no more than one or two drops come off the booster.

Could be the regulator. If you see fuel pouring down off the booster, shut if off and work on the floats and regulator (fuel pressure).


I'll get out to the shop today and do some more investigating and try to post pictures.
 
Posts: 73 | Location: Oostburg WI | Registered: October 16, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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