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Bracket Talk Bracket Talk Forum Tech Talk - by Abruzzi Headhunter 395 MC on alcohol?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Headhunter 395 MC on alcohol? | Login/Join |
| DRR S/Pro |
What issues? Carb or injection? | |||
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DRR Sportsman |
I'm not having much luck either...(continued from page 3) I tried my Alky Terminator on the 12* 632 with ZERO success in the first 9 attempts, sounds WICKED in the pits & up on the 5K chip, but on-track as soon as the car releases -> absolute chaos!! Like turning a light switch on & off all the way down track. (R5671A-9 @ .035, 30* timing) NEXT, I tried R5672A-8 gapped @ .018, the car, went down the track now but still don't seem right, missing about 2/10ths. but also have a real tight converter that is getting fixed soon. I thought I was going to be O.K with the success I had w/ my 383 HH / 632 combo but this new motor has me second guessing. | |||
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DRR Sportsman |
Most people i know, that run the 12* and injection, usually have to run an extended tip plug. Jeremiah Hall | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
Richie Second the projected plugs for this combo, all the BC motors ran those plugs and it cleared up the missing. What's your current tune up, nozzle size, pill, pump size? May want to back off the timing a few degrees also. DO you have a data logger with O2 and fuel pressure? James Monroe ran a 588 with those heads very successfully,,, I would definitely give him a call. | |||
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| DRR Pro |
I mostly agree with the beginning of this statement, although few if any will try it. | |||
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| DRR Elite |
What injectors are those? I would guess those are about maxed out? Foxtrot Juliet Bravo | |||
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DRR Top Comp |
We discuss this every now and then and we never seem to get the answer. Why do some large cubic inch, high horsepower motors run better on Gas? We know what alcohol does to help most motors. We know that Indy cars etc make good power and turn lots of RPM so we know it can be done. Alcohol dragsters on Nitro have a problem keeping cylinders lit good. Maybe this is a similar problem? Simply not enough ignition spark? NHRA uses the ignition to limit the Nitro cars so there is something there. Could have something to do with cam? Heads flow and design? I bet you if NHRA Pro Stock cars were allowed to run Alcohol very quickly they would have combination worked out and be significantly faster on alcohol. But I think if most motors run better on alcohol then large cubic inch motors should to when (if) we find the key. https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/ "Dunning-Kruger Effect" -a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge. Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue. 4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion | |||
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| DRR Top Comp |
My personal opinion or worthless two cents, whatever you want to call it. I think it's fairly complicated, chamber design, head flow and so forth but the main culprit is twice as much fuel and you're trying to pack it in that cylinder with a ton of compression. I've always wondered if a guy would be willing to lower the compression some would the bigger engines be okay with alky. I went back to gas only because the engine builder feels that it works better in Super Comp. It does seem to work fine and follows the weather but I still want to put my Terminator back on and try alky again. Maybe this winter, I'll think more on it Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right. Here I am....... | |||
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DRR Pro |
598 ,dart 380.bullit cam dyno in lubbock my alky carb made 20 more hp. my opinion is carb and cam.later my cam got changed to comp and i developed a pop. honesty is the best policy,insanity is a better deffense 1.036, 6.16@ 224 | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
THIS^^^ I have built a 582 HH395MC and then a 632 HH395MC built and tailored for Alky with a carb, and both work perfectly. You cant slap things together and expect them to be happy. Will either of these engine run better on gas? No idea, never tried. Guy wants to run alky, and does so without an issue. And both run as they should et wise. | |||
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| DRR Pro |
I would bet they are spot on @ 58 psi. | |||
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DRR S/Pro |
It's pretty common knowledge that alky gets diminishing returns compared to gas as you go from a stock engine up to a serious high compression race engine. As Vern said, it's largely about the amount of fuel and air you can efficiently get into the cylinder. Tony Leonard | |||
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| DRR Top Comp |
I am not one that sees a need to run super high compression. I think 16+ to one you are getting diminishing returns and smaller tuning window. I like to keep my stuff more conservative. As for compression I assume the Indy cars run a bunch of compression and we know they turn a lot of RPM and make a lot of horsepower per cubic inch. https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/ "Dunning-Kruger Effect" -a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge. Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue. 4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
Indy cars don't run methanol. It's an ethanol blend, sort of like E85. Tony Leonard | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
TOP38, 40 jet, 102 pill, then 39 jet, 86 pill, #1 pump. 29 -30* timing. The R5672A-8 plugs are the projected tip & they did help allot! car would not run on 5671's. I will have a 02 port on every tube next season - only 2 sensors tho...Sunset believes most of my performance loss is from the convertor.. 6800 now looking for 7200+. | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
Try the FR5 plug. They are longer. Tony Leonard | |||
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DRR Pro |
I guess I'm the exception to the rule here. I switched from gas carbs to alky injection and the car went faster than it had ever gone. Engine was set up for gas/nitrous...Only change I made was fuel system and timing......12* Profilers on my old stuff, alky was the best thing I'd done to improve my stuff. Fast forward to now, new build, still going to run alky. If your stuff won't run well on alky, then something is wrong with the combo.....Oh, I run 16.5:1 compression and nitrous as well..... Mark Goulette Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster www.livinthedreamracing.com "Speed kills but it's better than going slow!" Authorized Amsoil Retailer | |||
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| DRR Pro |
You need more timing to run alky...many will say you need less, but that generally isn't the case. On gas my old combo was happy at 32*. On alky, it wanted 36* WITH NO OTHER CHANGES. On alky I recorded my best et, mph, and 60'. The gains were significant..... Mark Goulette Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster www.livinthedreamracing.com "Speed kills but it's better than going slow!" Authorized Amsoil Retailer | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
Curious, did you leave the "gas/nitrous" cam in it? I have argued for years, that a cam designed for a HEALTHY shot of nitrous, will run really good on alky. Cam i run now is a 308 lobe on the exhaust, and to date, it is one of the best cams i have ever had, while using alky. Jeremiah Hall | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
I would certainly talk to James Monroe. The fact that an extended plug helps a bunch probably means the plug is being doused with fuel so it can't fire and moving the tip further out into the chamber is moving it away from the fuel. If this is the case, which I strongly believe, neither timing or cam changes will correct the problem. You may need chamber mods to make this work. With alky, when you build a combo that makes 1.8 to 1.9 HP/CID and more, you start to see these issues. Even when they seem to run well, they need too much fuel to do it! | |||
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Bracket Talk Bracket Talk Forum Tech Talk - by Abruzzi Headhunter 395 MC on alcohol?
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