So 09,10, and 14--Guess thats 3 times in 5 years, oh well I was close.

I think a lot of confusion arises due to the different naming convention for the classes between regions and sanctioning bodies. Since the early days of bracket racing here on the West Coast we have called the classes Super Pro, Pro, and Sportsman and we still do today.

In the NHRA world two steps and transbrakes have been allowed in PRO ET since at least the late 1990's in Divisions 6 and 7.

It wasn't until the ET Finals started being held in Pomona that they got all of the Divisions to play by the same set of rules. The first couple years I know the guys from out east were surprised to find that when they got to Pomona they were racing against cars with transbrakes and two steps.

Here on the West Coast I had never heard classes called Box, No-Box, or Footbrake until joining this list. I think this is mainly due to the lack of a IHRA presence and/or there not being any outlaw tracks around.

It's always been Super Pro, Pro and Spotsman out here on the left coast. Isn't this where it started with the Craftsmen Series?

Floyd,
I think you are correct. You have been around a little longer than I have. I took a pretty big break from racing when the kids were growing up. When my son and I got back in to racing our first Bracket Finals were 1993 in Woodburn and the Craftsman series was going strong.

quote:

Originally posted by Floyd Staggs:
It's always been Super Pro, Pro and Spotsman out here on the left coast. Isn't this where it started with the Craftsmen Series?

So, what were the rules for SUPER PRO and PRO back then? I'm assuming Super Pro were allowed transbrake/delay box and Pro was pure footbrake. Were there any ET limits in either class?

The rules change

quote:

Originally posted by 62Galaxie:
So, what were the rules for SUPER PRO and PRO back then? I'm assuming Super Pro were allowed transbrake/delay box and Pro was pure footbrake. Were there any ET limits in either class?

At the Bracket Finals in 1993, the three classes in Division 6 all had ET limits.

Super Pro was Electronics allowed.
Pro was limited to transbrake and two step with no automated shifters allowed.
Sportsman was allowed to have front tire line lock.

As was said the rules have changed over time.

The Craftsman series came along after a long run of Street Legal Races at Pomona. It was eventually renamed Summit Series when Craftsman backed out. Summit has pushed it to national even status.

I would love to know what the majority of racers that don't use a delay box feel about the current rules in "Pro ET", "No box", "footbrake", "No electronics" ......, whatever you want to call it.

Would the majority favor;

1. transbrake/2 step allowed........OR

2. No transbrake or 2 step allowed

Wish a poll could be conducted on that subject.

You would get real confused around here at bracket finals time.

D4 NHRA bracket finals PRO is footbrake only. Technically you can use a two-step on the brake pedal (stock eliminator style) but otherwise true footbrake.
D4 IHRA bracket finals MOD is no box.

Each event is one weekend apart and the two tracks are only 10 minute drive from one track to the other.

quote:

Originally posted by 62Galaxie:
I would love to know what the majority of racers that don't use a delay box feel about the current rules in "Pro ET", "No box", "footbrake", "No electronics" ......, whatever you want to call it.

Would the majority favor;

1. transbrake/2 step allowed........OR

2. No transbrake or 2 step allowed

Wish a poll could be conducted on that subject.

I prefer no trans brakes, no 2 steps. True footbrake only. Electric shifters okay or not okay that doesn't matter to me.

While I have no real interest in running footbrake. I agree its BS. You enter a class you have set your car for because you want to run where its almost all driver then they let lazy butts come in and use electronics to make up for there lack of skill.

quote:

Originally posted by 62Galaxie:
I would love to know what the majority of racers that don't use a delay box feel about the current rules in "Pro ET", "No box", "footbrake", "No electronics" ......, whatever you want to call it.

Would the majority favor;

1. transbrake/2 step allowed........OR

2. No transbrake or 2 step allowed

Wish a poll could be conducted on that subject.

Create a poll. Better yet contact the sanctioning bodies and tracks you race at.
Have you ever tried no box on a TB? It's not as easy as people think it is any more than using a delay box is some kind of magic.

Eman..... I have compiled stats at my home track using points races and ONLY eliminator rounds from the printouts of these events. There is NO QUESTION that using a delay box is better than pure FB for reaction times. That is why delay boxes were invented. From the stats at MY track, delay box has about a .020 advantage (AVERAGE) in RT. Please note; AVERAGE. That gap would narrow if you do the same at a $$$$$ race. But there will still be an advantage to the delay box. That is not a debatable subject. Transbrake/2 step is somewhere in between delay box and pure FB. In the hands of dedicated racers, IMHO, TB/2 step would would have an advantage over pure FB. There will always be exceptions to these AVERAGES by certain individuals.

As to your poll, I race Pro ET so I am fine with trans brake/two step for this class...the NHRA already has a footbrake only class called Sportsman...if you care to race footbrake for bigger money, no problem, just go see Jed or Michael...I think the OP was a bit confused, wideopen...he seemed to be speaking of Pro ET not Sportsman...I have never heard of or seen transbrakes/two steps in a footbrake only class...

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:

Create a poll. Better yet contact the sanctioning bodies and tracks you race at.
Have you ever tried no box on a TB? It's not as easy as people think it is any more than using a delay box is some kind of magic.

You're correct the box isn't magic, just like Penn and Teller don't do real magic. It can be explained. There are not distractions of the light coming down. Leaving on top and adjusting to your reactions that day is easier.

Now as far as a transbrake in no-box having the rpm never change is an advantage but you do still have the distractions of the tree coming down and if you're faster the other car leaving.

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:

Create a poll. Better yet contact the sanctioning bodies and tracks you race at.
Have you ever tried no box on a TB? It's not as easy as people think it is any more than using a delay box is some kind of magic.

You're correct the box isn't magic, just like Penn and Teller don't do real magic. It can be explained. There are not distractions of the light coming down. Leaving on top and adjusting to your reactions that day is easier.

Now as far as a transbrake in no-box having the rpm never change is an advantage but you do still have the distractions of the tree coming down and if you're faster the other car leaving.

Well said. I typically run bottom, use a TB/2 STEP and prefer it. Do I think it's an advantage. Yes I do. Do I think it's a big advantage. No.
My home track runs us all together FB and TB no box. At Bracket Finals we were separated. I don't mind either choice.

This whole topic is ridiculous. First off, No Box and Footbrake classes are not the same. Pro is a No Box class in Division 2. Has been for 10 years or more. Pro et used to allow delay boxes. Sportsman is footbrake only. As far as delay boxes being an advantage, that is bull! Many racers are hitting the bottom competitively in the Top bulb class! Delay boxes are a crutch as well as crosstalk! This site has numerous posts with inaccurate information by ‘racers’ who think they know what’s up. There isn’t any rule saying you cannot footbrake in delay box classes. If you want to footbrake do it. If you believe you are at any disadvantage because of transbrakes, two steps or delay boxes, that is on you! There are numerous footbrake big $ races. Nobody complaining on this post seem to go to them (fern excluded). There are some superstar bottom bulbers making dents in some of these BIG MONEY races! Stop stating things as facts when it simply is not true!!!

Manny Sousa

Manny, Get the round by round printout of your local track points races and AVERAGE up all the eliminator rounds by class. After you've done the math, let us know what the average reaction time was for each class. That's all you need to do Manny. Just do the math and report back, PLEASE.

I have numerous time slips to prove you wrong!

Manny Sousa