i get timed out 4th round last night. my opponent who has deep all over the car, turns both bulbs on. i pre-stage pretty quick, and wait for him to turn the top off. he doesn't so i start bumping in. i stage the car and they time me out intantly. i was told it was 7 seconds. and was done for the night. doesn't the deep stager have to go deep?

If auto start is on worry about yourself. It's the deep stagers responsibility to get in on time.

quote:

Originally posted by SP 124X:
If auto start is on worry about yourself. It's the deep stagers responsibility to get in on time.

^ yup

yeah, he was the slower car, experienced racer, figured he was going in. thought he had to go in deep, to activate the tree.

Track rules are all that count. Your track doesn't change the control for deep so it's up to you to get in, don't worry about your opponent.

understood

He lights 2 bulbs I go in even if I had not pre staged. Works real good for those tracks that enforce courtesy staging.

When you have 3 bulbs lit that clock starts, it is on you. Also if they want to stage deep it is on them.

it is still misleading to have deep on the car and never go deep!

Need more information to figure out what really happened here.
What class were you racing if it was just regular bracket racing then the 7 second timeout should be 10. Never seen bracket racing use 7
was your opponent double classing and in a 2nd class that does not allow deep staging? just foirgot to take it off the window for that round.
Most track have rules for deep staging, sounds like the racer from what you said turned both bulbs on which is pre stage for a deep stager. At that point you should have done your normal routine
Be interesting to see what was his reaction time in that lane if he had deep all over the car and didn't go deep they should have a terrible reaction time. That should have been your proof to the race director he never went deep.

Also remember that for deep staging the starter has to hold the tree till the deep stager if fully staged meaning turning top bulb off. There is no timing system that can recognize deep staging and hold the tree, its manual. Thats why most track have a deep stage rule that if you go deep it a courtesy and you must get in there first. check your track rules

So you have several thing possible here. Starter screwed up and didn't hold the tree and activated it while you were in pre stage and them being staged ( even though its pre stage for deep) the system does not know and stated the autostart countdown clock and timed you out be it 7 and should be 10.

Your opponent was playing games and got you good, which goes back to never change your routine on the starting line as it sounds like you waited and it got yea.

Who did you complain to that the racer never deep staged? A good race director would have asked to look at time slip and talk to starter.

it is a foot brake race. i was so livid, i forgot to get the time slip. track manager says auto start is activated by my third bulb and it is seven seconds. i clicked the car off and was told right there, [by the track manager] we were to re-run.i asked to go to the back of the field and says yes. back in the lanes, he changes his mind and says i am done.

quote:

Originally posted by keyed up:
it is still misleading to have deep on the car and never go deep!

I agree with you there and that may be why some tracks do not allow it? Does he HAVE to go in deep? I do not know. Also agree if auto start is on worry about yourself and it is the other guys responsibility if he wants to go deep.

I do not care who goes in first or last but when I light my top bulb I am ready to roll and when the other guy lights his top bulb it is on and I am easing in.

You said he was the more experienced racer well you got some valuable experience there. Next time you line up against him you will move in a little quicker.

yessir. lessons learned. won't happen again.

Keyed up
The track manager must not totally understand what deep staging process is and track rules if they have any. If he had deep on his windows and didn't go deep you got shafted but this is a gray area. So yes 3rd bulb start autostart but the big part is that the starter should not activate the process with a deep stager till that deep stager if full in. If not then the tree will think they are staged with both bulbs on and you sitting in pre stage and the autostart timer counting down and it got yea. I think you you just came out on the bad side of a starter screw up here. The only way you get timed out is if the starter activated the tree before the deep stager was fully in. Seen this happen a zillion times and 99% its a rerun or they toss you back in. The time slip would have shed alot more light on this by their reaction time.

quote:

Originally posted by Turk:
There is no timing system that can recognize deep staging and hold the tree, its manual.

ETS handles it, although I don't know if there are more than one or two of those systems around the country, since I-57 switched timing systems.

Portatree handles it. It puts a minus on the scoreboard so the driver knows it's in the computer. (What they do for Deep AND CrossTalk off, I have no idea...)

It doesn't handle it perfectly yet. I went over the known issues with Ally at PRI. I don't know if she's made the updates yet, but the last Portatree track I ran at back in May hadn't been updated.

The issues are twofold:
- When the Timeout expires, it doesn't red-light the Deep car if they're not in Deep, it just fires the tree.
- The system is still starting the Timeout clock as soon as it sees 3 bulbs instead of when one car is its pre-staged position and the one is in its fully Staged position (whether that be Deep or Shallow, respectively) Because of this, shallow cars were getting timed out before they should.

When I was going Deep there, I stopped putting two bulbs on right away to keep the timer from starting early. Once we were both pre-staged, I'd take a big chunk and proceed to bump in Deep.

Just my opinion. With deep on his window and this happening, the op should have gotten a re-run or put back in.

Around here deep isn't allowed so it is never a problem.

I've had this bite me in the *** also. I always thought it was just courtesy to give the deepstager all the time they need to get in, while I am not going deep. Not so. Will not happen again. Take care. Tom Worthington

The only way I know that it’s done currently is for the startling line person to override the auto start and the bottom of the ticket says “staged at starters go” or something along those lines.

This means that the deep stager is getting a courtesy of no auto start that no other racer is getting.

Deep on the window, it’s your responsibility to get in. Once 3 bulbs are lit, auto start is still on

This is a tough one, but in the case where DEEP isn't honored and the race is on autostart at all times, having DEEP on the car is useless. Not saying it is the case, but he could have put DEEP on the car, just to get you timed out for being courteous. It's a nasty trick, but it could be why he did it.

A bigger issue to me, is autostart being on 7 seconds. That is entirely too quick for most any class, but especially Footbrake. At the least, your track owner needs to take that to at least 10 seconds.

I was there, definitely should have been a re-run, wish i had video.
I was shocked to see the op was out of the race. Was not handled correctly.