kinda glad you don't have a video. i didn't handle it too well.

quote:

Originally posted by keyed up:
kinda glad you don't have a video. i didn't handle it too well.

I can't imagine I would have either. What track were you at?

...and this is why I hate deep staging. If auto-start is used and GUARANTEED, and the deep stager has the same amount of time to get staged as I do, no problem at all.

But, if the tree is being held, you really have no choice but go in first and let the deep stager take his/her sweet-a$$ time, because you never know for sure if auto-start may have been triggered and you will get timed out.

Many tracks have a rule against having DEEP anywhere on the car, and that plus using auto-start is the only fair and correct way to conduct a race.

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:
If auto-start is used and GUARANTEED, and the deep stager has the same amount of time to get staged as I do, no problem at all.

That's not true. If the shallow car stages before the Deep car is in Deep, the tree will fire after the Stage to Start time.

quote:

Originally posted by Jared:
This is a tough one, but in the case where DEEP isn't honored and the race is on autostart at all times, having DEEP on the car is useless. Not saying it is the case, but he could have put DEEP on the car, just to get you timed out for being courteous. It's a nasty trick, but it could be why he did it.

A bigger issue to me, is autostart being on 7 seconds. That is entirely too quick for most any class, but especially Footbrake. At the least, your track owner needs to take that to at least 10 seconds.

Off-topic, but what should the Stage-to-Start time be for a race that guarantees deep staging?

ELIMINATE COURTESY STAGING!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Beard:

quote:

Originally posted by Jared:
This is a tough one, but in the case where DEEP isn't honored and the race is on autostart at all times, having DEEP on the car is useless. Not saying it is the case, but he could have put DEEP on the car, just to get you timed out for being courteous. It's a nasty trick, but it could be why he did it.

A bigger issue to me, is autostart being on 7 seconds. That is entirely too quick for most any class, but especially Footbrake. At the least, your track owner needs to take that to at least 10 seconds.

Off-topic, but what should the Stage-to-Start time be for a race that guarantees deep staging?

Personally, I like 10 seconds, but I've seen it as long as 15 seconds.

quote:

Personally, I like 10 seconds, but I've seen it as long as 15 seconds.

Stage-to-Start, not the timeout. I mean, I've been on the converter for 15 seconds before, but the actual stage to start time was only about 4 seconds... LOL

I always thought sportsman tree is 10 secs and Pro tree is 7 secs

Whoa! There are only 3 numbers that count on Autostart.

Minimum Stage:
.6 This is how long you have to sit in the stage beam to be considered locked in. (think about bulb flickering techniques)

Stage to Start:
.7 for Pros, usually set at 1.0 to 1.2 at bracket tracks.

Time out:
Discretionary. Original default was 15 seconds, then NHRA shortened it up for the bracket finals rules package to 10 seconds. (we always advertised 10 seconds, but it was actually set at 12)

Bottom line, a track operator must do EVERYTHING in their power to avoid becoming part of the race. Either hold the tree for deep stagers, or set autostart, and let racers have at it, don't even bother to put it on the window.

I feel like the track asking for DEEP to be on the window, implies that they will hold the tree. Just my read.


Carry on.

I loved deep staging but stuff like this is why I got away from it.

When I was deep staging I tried to explain to guys that my pre stage is when I have both bulbs lit. I used to roll through the stage, back up slightly to light the stage bulb, then all I have to do when the other guy starts bumping in, is make one bump and I am deep. It was so quick and easy, if the guy in the other lane just did his thing and didn't worry about me half the time there would have been no problems. Ever. But alas, guys would set there, taking forever to get in while 3 bulbs are lit and get timed out. I even had it happen a few times when the timeout was set to 10 seconds. I would also wait a few seconds and then bump in for situations like I think happened to keyed. Both drivers are waiting for the other. You cant do that because the timer is ticking at 3 bulbs. And the guy that is shallow staged is the one that will get timed out. You just have to have situational awareness at that point. The way I always did it would never mess the other guy up if he just did his thing and let me do mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Beard:

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:
If auto-start is used and GUARANTEED, and the deep stager has the same amount of time to get staged as I do, no problem at all.

That's not true. If the shallow car stages before the Deep car is in Deep, the tree will fire after the Stage to Start time.

No, it most definitely IS true. Auto-start treats both lanes exactly the same. If it takes the deep stager too long to get himself/herself where they want to be, that's on them.

Suppose I like to bump in a bump or two after lighting the bottom bulb, but not all the way to knocking off the top bulb - can I write HALFWAY on my window and have them hold the tree for me too? If you HAVE to stage deep, you need to figure out how to get on in there just like I do.

moparacer, if you are pre-staged and i am pre-staged, why is the tree activated? ie autostart

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Beard:

quote:

Personally, I like 10 seconds, but I've seen it as long as 15 seconds.

Stage-to-Start, not the timeout. I mean, I've been on the converter for 15 seconds before, but the actual stage to start time was only about 4 seconds... LOL

Oops! My bad. For bottom bulb, I like 1 - 1.2 but I can't say where it 'should' be. That is just a personal preference.

quote:

Originally posted by keyed up:
moparacer, if you are pre-staged and i am pre-staged, why is the tree activated? ie autostart

You said your opponent turned both bulbs on. You were pre. The timer starts counting. They said you timed out at 7 seconds.

I am not pre staged if you and I run and I am going deep. I am staged.Technically that is my pre stage. Both bulbs on. I have to bump and take the top light out. You are pre. The clock starts at 3 bulbs if the starter doesn't hold the tree, which just about nobody does anymore. If you are waiting on me to go deep before you start bumping you are putting yourself at risk of being timed out if you wait on me.

See technically in this instance the deep stager cant be timed out if he doesn't go deep. He is already staged. Since you are pre staged you are the only one who should be concerned about timing out. IE, just do your thing and get in there.

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:
No, it most definitely IS true. Auto-start treats both lanes exactly the same. If it takes the deep stager too long to get himself/herself where they want to be, that's on them.

Try to get Deep on a bye run with AutoStart on and let me know how that works out for you.

quote:

Oops! My bad. For bottom bulb, I like 1 - 1.2 but I can't say where it 'should' be.

Sounds good to me. Is there a way to get close to those numbers fairly consistently?

moparacer, i know the deal. just messin with you.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Beard:
Try to get Deep on a bye run with AutoStart on and let me know how that works out for you.

The same way it works if I just want one or two little bumps after lighting the bottom bulb.

Again, auto-start treats both lanes exactly the same. Not a difficult concept to grasp at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Beard:

quote:

Oops! My bad. For bottom bulb, I like 1 - 1.2 but I can't say where it 'should' be.

Sounds good to me. Is there a way to get close to those numbers fairly consistently?

I can only assume you mean when autostart isn't being used. The answer is maybe . Any time you introduce the human element, it will create 'some' level of inconsistency. I've noticed it at most every race that honors DEEP but overall, I think it is managed well. If the DEEP racer goes in first, flipping the switch to autostart will create the consistency of a dual shallow stage start.