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Seems like another polarized subject today. I have pretty specific feelings/thoughts about it. What say you?


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6319 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You can get a 4 year education for the price of a car (as of now) at a local university if you commute from home and plan accordingly. That education will pay for itself many times over throughout the course of a lifetime.

If you go to an expensive 4 year school out of state and stay on campus, your payback will take much longer.
 
Posts: 283 | Location: Midwest  | Registered: January 12, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Gpa
 
Posts: 8726 | Location: Blythe GA USA | Registered: January 31, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"Higher Education" is a business and big business at that. What it's not is an entitlement, it's a choice and it's a gamble to some degree, pun intended that cost big $.

If you and/or your kid wants to go to college you either pay for it with your savings/retirement or take loans but I ain't paying for your kid, I paid for both of my kids.

I spent $500K on my kids education at Penn State and they both had high paying jobs lined up before graduation. I also made sure they had skin in the game. They did well.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I also made sure they had skin in the game.

^^^^^^ This is critical. College is a government subsidized cash cow for the universities. Just like any other government run program, rife with corruption and abuse.


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Posts: 2318 | Location: OKC, OK | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I also paid for my college education back in the day, working as much as I could and with loans that I paid off within a few years after going to work full time.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I wish there were more high profile people other than just Mike Rowe pushing trade schools. So many should never go to college and a great number get useless degrees anyway.

I have had kids go to college. One is an ER doctor, (he went to school on the GI bill) although he previously had a chemistry degree before the Army. One was in education/school counseling with her master's. She is no longer in the field because her husband took a job in Fresno.

Two others went with trade education. One in ems who eventually became a flight medic. He has since left that field, gone back to school and is doing cyber security. One daughter went through trade school and became a beautician. She has since gone back and gotten a degree and is now a cardiac sonographer.

One other got an associates but didn't use it for anything she first though she would and is doing something completely different making a good living. 2 others took classes for a while and decided it wasn't for them. Both make decent money also, one a 911 operator and the other working for a large insurance company.

College isn't for everyone and we need many more people who can do things with their hands.



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Posts: 2885 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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There are no universities within daily commute driving distance from where we live.
I did the community college thing first and transferred those credits to an accredited 4 year college. I worked while in school and during the summers, and my folks helped a lot as well. And I graduated debt free. We have made the same deal for my son, if he remains committed. College debt is a big weight that sticks around for decades for most. And NOBODY should be forced to pay for anyone else's college degree.

But digressing, I'm more interested in the answers about school being needed. There seems to be a growing contingent that think NOBODY should go to school. That college is inherently evil. While I agree that there is a large amount of forced indoctornating at the universities to a varying extent. I also am realistic that some careers CERTAINLY need a college degree, and should and usually do pay accordingly.

While there are way too many kids that get sucked into the college route that really shouldn't be attending any school, we also have our colleges filled with often very competitive far east and middle eastern students. Some do get a break on their tuition. Others come from families that greatly value education, and are willing to sacrifice to make sure their kids get an advanced degree. If our best and brightest aren't getting those spots in our colleges, then we will be a country filled with foreigners occupying our higher paying jobs. And in fairness, many of them simply have put in the work to earn their place at the best institutions. Are our local schools failing our kids? Maybe. But I suspect that has little to do with it. The kids of foreigners often go to the same schools right along side of Americans, and they excel while American students falter. Student and family dedication toward education makes a huge difference. My son toured the U of IL college of engineering when looking at schools. Nobody was speaking English. It was filled with non english speaking students. He ultimately decided that wasn't a good fit for him...which I agree with. But what does this say about Americans and our colleges? Nothing good I'm afraid.

And I mentioned in another thread......so many kids who really could be productive in trade and manufacturing jobs, waste time and money with college instead of jumping into the work world. This is hurting them and our country. But everyone gets a trophy, and a college education today.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6319 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I went to Georgia State University at night, getting both a BBA and an MBA. Didn't live on campus and did most of it with night classes while working during the day. Zero debt - paid as I went.

Maybe the biggest scandal of our time is how much people are being charged to go to state-supported universities, the loans taken out, and now President Brandon forgiving the debt and giving a huge middle finger to all of us who paid our own way.

College for sure is not the only way to succeed, but it is a great way to do it if you come out of it with no debt and study something that translates to good income afterwards.


Mike
 
Posts: 1560 | Location: Marietta, GA | Registered: December 09, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Bucky:
Student and family dedication toward education makes a huge difference.


Says a ton right there. Public/government schools have become daycare centers to a great degree. We knew every teacher of every one of our kids personally and were greatly involved as I suspect many on this site would be similarly involved.



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Posts: 2885 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As long as the government is making student loans to virtually anyone, the cost of a college education will continue to rise. Same as vehicles - as long as finance terms continue to get longer, the cost of the cars will do the same.

I would not be totally against some sort of student loan relief with the stipulation that after that point the government got out of the student loan business.... wont happen.

I was a self paid community college graduate that started working as a night shift operator at a megacorp tech and mfg company. After a few years there they sent me for my bachelors and paid it in full. So far I have been extremely happy with my 18 year Engineering career. For the last several years I have managed and developed a large, global group of engineers.


Mikey
 
Posts: 1706 | Location: In a Marriott near you! | Registered: February 10, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Several mentions about "skin in the game". Very important. When public education is free, many will simply place no value on it. Because they don't value it, they won't put effort into it.

The same will happen with higher education if made free.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6319 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Former college students demand that taxpayers forgive their debts, but welder Chloë Hudson and Mike Rowe say that's UNFAIR to responsible workers...





We saved for our kids when they were in grade school with Florida prepaid college program which locked in college tuition and most fees.

I agree that all kids are not meant for college.
Our daughter received her degree in business and finance from the University of Florida and got a great job at Harris Corporation.
Our son decided to stay in our business.
 
Posts: 2961 | Location: Boon Docks, FL | Registered: March 22, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You know, back in 2005 "Trans Lady" meant something different than it does to some today. LOL. Oh how times change.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6319 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Saw this quote on Facebook that I agree with:



"If your college degree doesn't have enough value for you to pay it off, it certainly doesn't have enough value for me to pay it off".
 
Posts: 1167 | Location: Elgin,IL | Registered: February 08, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 442OLDS:
Saw this quote on Facebook that I agree with:



"If your college degree doesn't have enough value for you to pay it off, it certainly doesn't have enough value for me to pay it off".


I'd even take it further, probably unpopularly. If you don't have a plan to graduate with little to no debt, you may want to rethink your plan. I'd make an exception for doctors simply because of the almost guaranteed earning potential.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6319 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think like many things in life, it depends and there are many ways to make a living. It depends on the person and the field they want to go into.

I was a high school/college math teacher for 14 years and now I’m a school administrator. To teach in NY, a masters degree is required, and to be an administrator it’s another degree beyond the masters. But where you get the degree matters too. I went to a community college then transferred to a state school for my bachelors. So many of my colleagues complain about student loans because they just had to go to a fancy expensive private school. Guess what, the piece of paper that says you’re certified as a teacher is the same from a private school as it is at a public school. In my field, as long as you are certified, how you interview and your people skills are way more important than whether you went to a public or private school. On the other hand, some fields rely on the connections made in college to get a job and for those a more expensive private school makes sense even though it’s a bigger gamble. Either way, it’s all about connections and people skills.

Also, it’a hard to expect a 16/17 year old to decide what they want to do for the rest of their life as many change their mind. When I was in the classroom I always encouraged my students to have a plan: college and debt are OK as long as it’s for a field that pays enough to repay the debt quickly. If you’re going into public service, go to a public school and get the piece of paper. Don’t go to private school for a degree that is useless and there are no good paying jobs. My ex gf had a degree in fine arts from a prestigious arts school. After she graduated there were no well paying jobs so she went back to school to be a nurse. My wife went into nursing right out of high school and never had any debt. She’s finishing her masters now.

Part of the blame here lies in school counselors steering students into college as if it’s required when it isn’t. Most schools around here have eliminated their metal and wood shops so students don’t get exposed to valuable hands on skills unless they have parents at home that are into it.

On the other hand, my oldest brother is completely self made, no college at all. He worked for a small excavation company out of high school and soon bought his own equipment (all used, fixed them up) and now owns many different rental properties and countless houses he’s put up and sold along the way along with the excavating. But not everyone has the skills and work ethic to do that.

And on the topic of foreigners and the value of education, families in countries like India place a high value on education and students face high pressure from their families to perform. Very competitive. It’s the opposite of here where many families don’t give a darn about education; like someone else said if it’s free it’s not appreciated. India has more honor students than the US has students in total.

With all that said, higher education is big business for sure. But I am in no way in favor of any college loan forgiveness. Why should I pay for someone’s poor choices? Like so many other things, personal responsibility has gone by the wayside.
 
Posts: 701 | Location: Upstate NY | Registered: July 02, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Loan forgiveness and Free Community College

So Brandon forgives student loans. So what are they going to do with the new students enrolling and creating new debt in Fall 22 and beyond?

The ones promoting loan forgiving say "student loan" not college and university loan forgiving. So get ready to be giving forgiveness to Beauty School dropouts too. Most of those types of schools demand Full Payment regardless or attendance and the student's loan pays it by contract.

Now Free Community College for everyone... Community Colleges are pretty much full, 90% plus enrollment every fall. So where are all these seats and classrooms "for everyone" coming from? Oh don't forget additional faculty. From the start, there will have to be a selection process for enrollment. You can count on it not being on merit or first come first serve. Guess who will NOT be enrolled due to DEI plus other racial, minority and immigration processes? That is right...YOUR KIDS

With 27 years in Community College management, I have seen more than my share of moronic plans come down the pipe. Let's not forget the miss handling of Federal Grants for the latest fad projects that provide no job opportunities for the students. (My favorite, Solar and Wind Energy Technician training for non-electricians.)


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Posts: 1214 | Location: Clinton Township, MI | Registered: September 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The whole loan forgiveness deal is nothing more than trying to buy votes from one group and charging it to rest of us. Taking money from our pocket and giving it to them.

While I agree with Ed, Bucky and Head gamez on this one I would add that most of the problem is caused by Colleges overcharging the value for useless degrees. You can not charge $400,000 for a degree in a field that does not pay but $70,000 a year if you could find a job at all.

So I do not think the problem is the loans themselves but the colleges overcharging and if you are going to address anything that is the direction I would go.

College is important and a degree has value if there are good paying jobs in the field. If not then it is a worthless piece of paper and a waste of money.

If we allow the kids college debt to be wiped out then the value of college degrees will be worth even less. The cost will go up more and it will be another never ending entitlement that we pay for.

Several have said something about "Skin in the Game" and I agree with that. But Colleges need to have "Skin in the Game" to. We should not be paying for worthless degrees in non existent fields. As long as we pay it that will get worse to.

Colleges are not about teaching kids they are about making money. They do not care about your kids and our future.


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"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

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Posts: 3918 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bottom line. IF YOUR COLLEGE DEGREE DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH VALUE FOR YOU TO PAY IT OFF THEN IT DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH FOR ME TO PAY IT OFF.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

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Posts: 3918 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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