That track is in SC and I raced down that way this past week end and some Orangeburg racers were there....Most said it was all about a couple that complained about everything. Used to have a pretty good crowd down there.
By the way Bucky this track has had a beginners class as long as I have raced there plus Jrs

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

Originally posted by double trouble:
bracket racing is dying because there's no way to get into it.
Nobody wants to come and get started when all they are is shark bait.
It would be cheap and easy to start a program where beginners would race other beginners, and after they win 3 times go race with the racers.

Well, where did the rest of us start? I don't disagree that it's hard to win against battle tested veterans. But, it's where the rest of us started. Today everyone wants a trophy the first time they try something. I guess we could set it up that way. But eventually ya gotta swing with the big boys. And let's face it......bracket racing is about cutting a light and figuring it out at the finish line. Nowhere in there did I say you have to have a $50k car. Nowhere in there did I say you should go big money racing while you are getting started. Only well diggers start at the top.

Exactly the same thing I've been thinking. Maybe that isn't good enough for the present day? Take care. Tom Worthington

Bracket racing ain't dying in Orlando. They packed em in again despite blazing temperatures this past weekend.

Orlando Speed World is the smoothest run race track I've been by FAR. They've rained out two times since the last time I was there, which also rained out, over a month ago.

I pull up at the gate and they had my rain out tech card on hand, no hassle, no awkward moment. Just a thumbs up, and a have a good time.

All else fails, move to Orlando, they have a killer Super Pro bracket racing program and the race is perfectly run with everyone on the same page, and a full, full, full contingent of sponsors.

Excellent, pays $2750 Super Pro Guaranteed.

Track prep is phenomenal.

Just to kinda clear things up. I've raced the bracket series at this track for the past five years. It has always has a pretty decent turnout. The problem isnt with the racers. Its the owners. They've practically ran off every track manager and bracket racer they possibly can. The place is notorious for cutting purses, posting flyers with misleading payouts, having a sketchy timing system that they refuse to fix. The list goes on and on. I've personally been told by the track owners to consider stop showing up to the races because of social media beef and other irreverent matters. They are just using the "complaint issues" as a cop out for getting rid of the bracket program to replace it with grudge racing. This has been the plan all along imo.

The problem with this track is that they personally address people on social media and start drama with everyone. They even banned the guy that won the points series from going to the bracket finals bc they didnt like a facebook post he was in.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
I have never raced at or been to the track mentioned by the OP. I can just comment from what I've seen at local tracks around me.

A few bad apples ruin it for everyone else. It's the same people complaining over and over. You will never make them happy and they will always be in the center of any controversy or conspiracies. They complain about the payouts, they complain about the staff, they complain about the timing system, the parking, the food, the restrooms etc. They compare each track to another, then when they go there they do the exact same thing. It makes no difference where they go, they complain to hear themselves complain.

I also want to add, track owners and operators should NOT look at or be on social media. They should distance themselves to not get frustrated or make rash decisions based on a few keyboard ninjas.

quote:

Originally posted by Race King:
Just to kinda clear things up. I've raced the bracket series at this track for the past five years. It has always has a pretty decent turnout. The problem isnt with the racers. Its the owners. They've practically ran off every track manager and bracket racer they possibly can. The place is notorious for cutting purses, posting flyers with misleading payouts, having a sketchy timing system that they refuse to fix. The list goes on and on. I've personally been told by the track owners to consider stop showing up to the races because of social media beef and other irreverent matters. They are just using the "complaint issues" as a cop out for getting rid of the bracket program to replace it with grudge racing. This has been the plan all along imo.

The "support your local track" cry is a double edged sword... I watched Westhampton, Englishtown & now possibly Atco go away. No one wants to see a track go away but I'm still a customer... how long do you "support" a business that gives you every reason not to? The current owner of Atco regularly tells people "you need me, I don't need you" while they complain about the lack of support their events get. How many times would you eat a bad meal because you don't want your local restaurant to close?

quote:

Originally posted by BD104X:

quote:

Originally posted by Race King:
Just to kinda clear things up. I've raced the bracket series at this track for the past five years. It has always has a pretty decent turnout. The problem isnt with the racers. Its the owners. They've practically ran off every track manager and bracket racer they possibly can. The place is notorious for cutting purses, posting flyers with misleading payouts, having a sketchy timing system that they refuse to fix. The list goes on and on. I've personally been told by the track owners to consider stop showing up to the races because of social media beef and other irreverent matters. They are just using the "complaint issues" as a cop out for getting rid of the bracket program to replace it with grudge racing. This has been the plan all along imo.

The "support your local track" cry is a double edged sword... I watched Westhampton, Englishtown & now possibly Atco go away. No one wants to see a track go away but I'm still a customer... how long do you "support" a business that gives you every reason not to? The current owner of Atco regularly tells people "you need me, I don't need you" while they complain about the lack of support their events get. How many times would you eat a bad meal because you don't want your local restaurant to close?

This would be a good place for a LIKE button.

Don't get me wrong: Some customers (in this case bracket racers) can be a PITA. Hell every business has those. Our local track had a major PITA customer due to a mess up with cross talk, and required rerun. The track was very apologetic about the situation. But of course the guy who won the first time had a melt down in the tower, and was terribly disrespectful to the person responsible....to no end. He finally got himself kicked out. I can't say I never fired a customer. Sometimes its the best route.

Could not agree more with this.
I went over and over trying to support th track because it really is a great facility but at the end of the day i was tired of dealing with the poor track management.
It was to the point where they would hire track managers and they would quit within a month bc they couldnt handle the owners.
At the end of the day im showing up to race.
Not to win a popularity contest or to deal with facebook drama.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

Originally posted by BD104X:

quote:

Originally posted by Race King:
Just to kinda clear things up. I've raced the bracket series at this track for the past five years. It has always has a pretty decent turnout. The problem isnt with the racers. Its the owners. They've practically ran off every track manager and bracket racer they possibly can. The place is notorious for cutting purses, posting flyers with misleading payouts, having a sketchy timing system that they refuse to fix. The list goes on and on. I've personally been told by the track owners to consider stop showing up to the races because of social media beef and other irreverent matters. They are just using the "complaint issues" as a cop out for getting rid of the bracket program to replace it with grudge racing. This has been the plan all along imo.

The "support your local track" cry is a double edged sword... I watched Westhampton, Englishtown & now possibly Atco go away. No one wants to see a track go away but I'm still a customer... how long do you "support" a business that gives you every reason not to? The current owner of Atco regularly tells people "you need me, I don't need you" while they complain about the lack of support their events get. How many times would you eat a bad meal because you don't want your local restaurant to close?

This would be a good place for a LIKE button.

Don't get me wrong: Some customers (in this case bracket racers) can be a PITA. Hell every business has those. Our local track had a major PITA customer due to a mess up with cross talk, and required rerun. The track was very apologetic about the situation. But of course the guy who won the first time had a melt down in the tower, and was terribly disrespectful to the person responsible....to no end. He finally got himself kicked out. I can't say I never fired a customer. Sometimes its the best route.

A tough lesson to learn is that you're not a customer when you buy a tech card.

Meaning, you're playing by arbitrary rules the track can make up as they go.

You are not right, even if you are right.

So pick and choose carefully where you race.

Especially if you don't have what it takes to win a popularity contest.

Like for instance a 700% Super Pro championship batting average, with a street car on a 10" tire.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,

700%??? How do you do that?

quote:

Originally posted by BD104X:

The "support your local track" cry is a double edged sword... I watched Westhampton, Englishtown & now possibly Atco go away. No one wants to see a track go away but I'm still a customer... how long do you "support" a business that gives you every reason not to? The current owner of Atco regularly tells people "you need me, I don't need you" while they complain about the lack of support their events get. How many times would you eat a bad meal because you don't want your local restaurant to close?

Quite often, if the only alternative is to starve to death (have nowhere to race).

I frequently run at a track that has nearly no traction, is way too short, and has multiple rounds of b*ybacks. But you know what? They are relatively close to me and hold bracket races pretty much every single weekend, including most of those months the other tracks close for the season. The track operator never says that he doesn't need us (the bracket racers), but I'd have to be pretty stupid not to be able to see it for myself. If interstate travel is a regular part of your bracket race plan, then no, you really don't need to support any local tracks. Take care. Tom Worthington

quote:

Originally posted by Tom396:

quote:

Originally posted by BD104X:

The "support your local track" cry is a double edged sword... I watched Westhampton, Englishtown & now possibly Atco go away. No one wants to see a track go away but I'm still a customer... how long do you "support" a business that gives you every reason not to? The current owner of Atco regularly tells people "you need me, I don't need you" while they complain about the lack of support their events get. How many times would you eat a bad meal because you don't want your local restaurant to close?

Quite often, if the only alternative is to starve to death (have nowhere to race).

I frequently run at a track that has nearly no traction, is way too short, and has multiple rounds of b*ybacks. But you know what? They are relatively close to me and hold bracket races pretty much every single weekend, including most of those months the other tracks close for the season. The track operator never says that he doesn't need us (the bracket racers), but I'd have to be pretty stupid not to be able to see it for myself. If interstate travel is a regular part of your bracket race plan, then no, you really don't need to support any local tracks. Take care. Tom Worthington

I might be tempted to compare that to a decent meal with great service at a dive of a restaurant. And I would eat there. Take away the service though, and it just doesn't make any sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Dees:
700%??? How do you do that?

Same way they do it in baseball, 7 hits in 10 attempts. That's a 700% batting average.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Dees:
700%??? How do you do that?

Same way they do it in baseball, 7 hits in 10 attempts. That's a 700% batting average.

Actually, in baseball, it is expressed as .700. That is 70%, not 700%. Many folks will call that "batting 700." If a player gets hits on every at bat, that is called "batting 1000", but the actual number is 1.000 which is 100%, not 1000%. Take care. Tom Worthington

Going through a similar scenario with local track. Like a restaurant with bad food and bad service but really convenient. They do everything they can to make many not want to race there, yet there's so many racers around they can still get cars especially when the better tracks aren't racing. Been going on like this for years. Old story we don't want the track to close and become a sub-division but you almost dread pulling in the gates at times.

The local track here is similar. Same folks show up every weekend and a few of them are always griping about something. As a former business owner myself, I am fully aware of how easily it is to get discouraged by customers. It almost seems that there are just a few that have nothing better to do but to degrade others. With that said, nowadays with the popularity of social networking it's really easy to get broadcast your opinion to thousands of people. Many small businesses survive on peanuts anyway and it usually doesn't take much to get them shut down, especially in this day and age. Then, because of 1 or 2 unhappy customers (racers?) the entire local racing community ain't got nowhere to race anymore. Unfortunate, but we are seeing it with our own eyes.

Bracket racing in general doesn't generate much income for the track; but no prep does, along with all of the spectators that show up to watch those guys crash their cars. Seems like that's the way things are going, unless the bracket racers decide to show up and race again.

Make me understand why a track run race that is SUPPOSED to pay well can never get enough cars yet a promoter can rent the place guarantee the same purse, no car limit, and pack the place and make money. Just how does that work?

quote:

Originally posted by ferndaleflyer:
Make me understand why a track run race that is SUPPOSED to pay well can never get enough cars yet a promoter can rent the place guarantee the same purse, no car limit, and pack the place and make money. Just how does that work?

Damn, Excellent question...

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by David Covey:

quote:

Originally posted by ferndaleflyer:
Make me understand why a track run race that is SUPPOSED to pay well can never get enough cars yet a promoter can rent the place guarantee the same purse, no car limit, and pack the place and make money. Just how does that work?

Damn, Excellent question...

Dave

Seriously? It's because a large percentage of today's bracket racers will only run for large guaranteed purses. Heck, they might never even get close to winning one of those purses, but that doesn't seem to be a factor. The same sort of logic keeps casinos drawing big crowds and raking in big bucks. Please tell me you already knew this. Take care. Tom Worthington

quote:

Originally posted by Tom396:

Seriously? It's because a large percentage of today's bracket racers will only run for large guaranteed purses. Heck, they might never even get close to winning one of those purses, but that doesn't seem to be a factor. The same sort of logic keeps casinos drawing big crowds and raking in big bucks. Please tell me you already knew this. Take care. Tom Worthington

Sure seriously.. Did you not read Fern's statement? Same money, just track owner versus promoter (someone not affiliated with track).
What is to stop any track from promoting any race.
For years the local track to me held several 5000.00 races. Normal payouts were 1500.00
Then they quit promoting them and wondered why no one showed up.

Does every race have to be for a 100,000.00?

Dave