video done last week
If this is going to be enforced, I reckon I won't be racing in Va. anymore.
i think that whole corridor of 81 is going to be a crap shoot if your going to run under the radar, from chambersburg thru winchester is already tough enough with enforcement... when they want extra money they will start getting the racers.
but with the long arm of the law, its only a matter of time i think before more is going to happen, and i dont think the guys on TV throwing around wads of 40k are helping, the government wants to make sure they get there cut of that stack.
Looks like if you use an RV to tow you are exempt like Connecticut.
Man was not built to fly ... That's why he built HEMI's
ALIAS -- BIG KAHUNA
READ this...There are companies with fraudulent scam practices. They will act like they are the FMCSA and or the DOT. They are NOT... Be on your toes... Your information is all public information. When i received my DOT. I got no less than 25-50 emails, Companies selling scams.
Nothing but a cash grab period...
"Just Shut Up and Race"
This is pretty legit. The officer is a little bit of a hard azz, but correct. I'm not familiar with Virginia laws though.
I would have liked to debate a few things with him.
I watched this video and am more confused now than prior.
The trouper says at 35:30 into the video if you are truck weighing more than 7501# , if you have a 2500 and towing you have to pull into the scales.
What if you are a 1/2 ton pick-up truck with 6800 GVWR and weigh 6000# and pulling a 7000# trailer. Are you required to pull into the scales if you are NOT commercial and out of state?
This video was about stickers on the car / trailer and receiving money.
So, what is a car (be it race or stock) in a trailer with NO stickers or markings on either called? Personal Property? Now are you required to have $1,000,000 of insurance if you are not a business?
IRS says I have a Hobby if a 1099 is received. Doesn't even get listed in the Hobby section of my 1040. Does all of what this trouper was talking about apply to a Hobby?
I think the confusing part is the fact that the trooper was speaking mainly about Virginia laws. That trooper is surely the type of officer I would not want to meet on the side of the highway. He seems fair, but you can tell it's his way only. The trooper ASSUMED everyone was sponsored and stickered up. The problem with this meeting was that no one knew enough to ask the proper questions like "what if you have no sponsors or stickers, no business, etc?" This is how I run my operation and would have asked about this. My stuff is pretty well setup by FMSCA rules for non commercial, but this trooper would surely have a field day with me.
You would think they have enough to do as it is without looking for a new angle at collecting revenue. Virginia has always sucked as far as speed trap up and down I-81. I don't miss driving the length of it every day. I've gotten plenty of well deserved over weight tickets at the Winchester scales. Usually those folks were pretty fair and easy going.
If states really start playing these silly games it's going to be bad for the ones they stop. As he stated if they put you out of service you will be parked until you comply or get towed.
After reviewing some links to Virginia and FMCSA rules I believe it comes down to what they determine “Commercial”.
They write in “enormous” lengths of what commercial laws are, and leave the NON-commercial in a few small hard to find not well explained or not to find paragraphs.
I believe the person that stops you will interpret this and decides your fate if stopped.
Knowing this now and recently traveling the states of IN, OH, WV, VA, NC, SC to attend some races and returning soon, I’m also considering removing my name and numbers from the race car windows.
But according to that trooper, if they deem your trailer is commercial (which he can easily do) then you lose the motorhome exemption. The thing that ALWAYS sucks about this is that even if everything he said is correct, it’s all up to the mood and interpretation of the law by the particular LEO who stops you!
Billy Duhs - BD104X@gmail.com
Just because a trooper deems you as commercial does not make the trooper correct in a court of law.
RV's that are registered as an RV that is used for recreation (racing or casino or bingo) is up to a judge to decide. EVEN when "prize money" can be won...they pay for bingo cards, we pay for tech cards, others feed slot machines or table games.
Remember, BINGO/gambling is a hobby as well and some older folks live and drive around in their RV...does not make them commercial because a trooper said so.
RV is exempt in Texas and many many other states. That's what the law says...
Has anyone ever been chased down driving by the scales? I have passed thousands of scales in the last 10 years without incident.
I would also like to debate...for days...at the end of the day a judge will decide not the trooper.
I get ya Billy.
I do agree.
I'm sure the officers will see the "Out of state" plates and bet you will not come back to fight it (free $$ for them).
HOWEVER, as Torqin says, RV's are 100% legal and can tow anything at any weight, at any length. They are 100% exempt from any of the CDL requirements.
Connecticut is the same way, this came directly from a Connecticut DOT inspector when I asked him. As he said, "Exempt means exempt". He actually got pi ssed at me due to me questioning him about me towing my 32 foot triple axle trailer behind my 43 foot coach. There are NO limits in Connecticut for RV's.
Also, in CT you can NOT get a CDL for an RV, the license does NOT exist.
I know other states are different.
If a cop wants you, he'll get you.
It comes down to his interpretation, even though you are legal he can still stop you.
This does NOT apply to towing with a pickup.
CDL's are required for pickups at certain weights, etc in CT.
Man was not built to fly ... That's why he built HEMI's
ALIAS -- BIG KAHUNA
Take your big checks off the wall of your trailer Took mine down years ago and put them in garage because of this
Agree with you 100%, BUT my fear is that they will park me on the side of the road until whatever paperwork they decide is needed / I get a driver with a CDL.
Frank Mark - I took the checks down in my trailer a few years ago for this very reason, I just wish I could say that task took me longer than it actually did!
Billy Duhs - BD104X@gmail.com
My question is, say I take this to court and win, as I should, can I sue them back for wrecking my racecation? Im looking for a way to set a precedent.
The Regulations are NOT new. They seem new because we simply went on our merry way before and never thought about them. But when our friends started getting pulled over and cited and told to get US Dept. of Transportation (USDOT) numbers, they kind of got our attention.
However, simply obtaining a DOT number is not where the difficulty lies. It is what comes AFTER that. Any commercial vehicle operating in interstate commerce, who obtains a USDOT number, is required to abide by the FMCSA Safety Regulations. This includes keeping a daily log book, certain safety training, vehicle inspections, annual log reviews, etc and so on…obviously meant for COMMERCIAL transporters. There are strict requirements for these log books, it’s not simply writing down your mileage from one place to the next. If you are interested in learning more about these regulations, you can stop at any truck stop and purchase the 661 page “Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Pocketbook” for about $5. Oh, but don’t forget to grab the $2 (or so) “Official Deluxe Duplicate Copy DRIVER’S DAILY LOG” – because you’ll need that too if you get your USDOT number and intend to travel across state lines (even with your hobby race or show car).
Hobbyists, trailering their car, horse or boat to an event, are being stopped on the roads by enforcement officers all across the country and told they need a DOT number. The hobbyists are simply taking their hobby vehicle to a show or race event. They are on the road perhaps five or six times a year with their vehicles, in summer weather usually, and often towing some of their most valued possessions. To hold hobbyists to the same commercial standards as commercial transporters simply does not make sense. And the lawmakers obviously agreed – which is why they specifically wrote certain applicability requirements into the exceptions of the regulation.
Specifically, 390.3(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to –
(f)(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;
Even with the Guidance below, supplied by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, hobbyists are being stopped and cited by enforcement officers.
Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the “occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise” apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?
Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.
SO, WHY ARE HOBBYISTS BEING TARGETED?
I asked a question of two different Federal Officers …What if a person is a member of a car club and the club obtains money from sponsors, the car is required to run the decals of the sponsors. The prize money for anyone who wins is made up partly of the money the club obtained from sponsors and partly from membership dues. Now, is that considered corporate sponsorship? BOTH of the agents I spoke with told me no, that would be prize money and the exception would still apply if they claimed it as regular income and did not write off expenses as part of a business. The difference is Corporate Sponsorship is what is paid to an individual whether they win a race or not, endorsement money is based on a driver winning and is therefore PRIZE money.
I printed this and put it in my motorhome yesterday...
394L Super Pro / Super Gas
I was heading home last year here in Florida with my 40 foot trailer cruising in the right lane. I had no intention of stopping but when I got close to the scales the entrance LED board started flashing bypass scales. So I did and I’ll keep doing that until I get stopped by some DOT cop that tells me otherwise.
This is true in TX. There IS a length limit, which applies to RV's and non-commercial trucks (including pickups) pulling trailers: The maximum (combined) overall length cannot exceed 65' without an over length permit.
(With that being said, I do not know of anyone who has been stopped for violation of this).
Dan "Jim" Moore
Much too young to feel this damn old!!
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