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virginia DOT regulations for race teams
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DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
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I also carry every law or article pertaining to my situation in a file folder. It will depend on the situation weather I pull that stuff out. In my state of Mi, I'm 100% legal. Even my length at 72' is legal and I have documentation to prove it. Out of state is hi or miss though.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by ski_dwn_it:
Nobody really expects these guys to know everything the law outlines.


I would expect this Virginia Trooper in the presentation video to know “Every” last regulation of the FMCSA laws to include any revisions that are current. He waved the FMCSA manual and proclaimed that he uses these regulations all day long. He should be an expert at this.

Instead, the very first thing this Trooper displays in the presentation is that if you have Prize Money you are Commercial. That is his opinion and can ticket you based on that “Assumption”.

I'd also like to know where in the FMCSA that this definition that he displayed appears in the manual if it actually does.
 
Posts: 2495 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
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I'm seriously thinking about contacting that trooper.....lol. I would really like to debate this with an officer who obviously thinks he's right, yet he can't touch me.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of TORQIN
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It is the troopers job to know the law he enforces.

While many officers and drivers :assume" with regularity, how often has it been battled in court?
 
Posts: 1754 | Location: Houston, Tx. | Registered: November 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
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quote:
Originally posted by TORQIN:
It is the troopers job to know the law he enforces.

While many officers and drivers :assume" with regularity, how often has it been battled in court?


EXACTLY. I think the problem is that it's usually many states away and nobody wants to fight that far from home.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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quote:
Originally posted by TORQIN:
It is the troopers job to know the law he enforces.

While many officers and drivers :assume" with regularity, how often has it been battled in court?


Good luck with that since in a lot of cases, the laws are vague and even calling the DOT doesn't clear it up or offer the same answer twice.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6419 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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I saw something the other day I didn’t understand. A MH with an inspection sticker for 49cfr 396.17

Seems like that is a commercial inspection sticker? How (and why) does a person get a commercial inspection for an rv
 
Posts: 931 | Location: my own little world | Registered: July 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by Bucky:
Good luck with that since in a lot of cases, the laws are vague and even calling the DOT doesn't clear it up or offer the same answer twice.


The Exceptions described in 390.3 (f)(3) is the Law that “Exempts” the Hobby racer from having to have DOT numbers because their racing is NOT a Business (as stated by the IRS) and NOT Commercial.

§390.3 General applicability.

(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to—

(1) All school bus operations as defined in §390.5 except for the provisions of §§391.15(e) and (f), 392.80, and 392.82 of this chapter;

(2) Transportation performed by the Federal government, a State, or any political subdivision of a State, or an agency established under a compact between States that has been approved by the Congress of the United States;

(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation and not in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

The Question and Guidance further explains exactly what is meant in the §390.3(f)(3) law.

Here’s the Question and Guidance of Law.

Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) [17] for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

The above is directly from the FMCSA book.

Explain to me “What” is vague in this Law, Question 21 and Guidance.
 
Posts: 2495 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Just found this on Ohio DOT site see page 19, dont really care if its commercial or not on the weight limits the way I see?

https://www.statepatrol.ohio.gov/doc/truckbook.pdf

Again page 19

From what I can tell is if your trailer is rated at 10,001 lbs or more every tri-axle is, you need atleast a class B CDL.
 
Posts: 610 | Location: nw ohio | Registered: November 20, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
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quote:
Originally posted by HR3377:
Just found this on Ohio DOT site see page 19, dont really care if its commercial or not on the weight limits the way I see?

https://www.statepatrol.ohio.gov/doc/truckbook.pdf

Again page 19

From what I can tell is if your trailer is rated at 10,001 lbs or more every tri-axle is, you need atleast a class B CDL.


This is for commercial vehicles though. Under these rules, which are identical to Mi, the old man driving his pusher mh would need a class B cdl. Michigan specifically states motorhomes are exempt from commercial guidelines. I'm sure other states are this way also. Last year, when I was taking my cdl test, I called the Mi DOT twice. Both times I was told I absolutely did not need a cdl using my conversion mh to tow my stacker trailer. Six or so years ago after I got my pusher mh, I called the Mi DOT and was to I definitely needed a cdl.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
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quote:
Originally posted by BJs Wild Ride:
I saw something the other day I didn’t understand. A MH with an inspection sticker for 49cfr 396.17

Seems like that is a commercial inspection sticker? How (and why) does a person get a commercial inspection for an rv


You can buy those stickers. I used my mh to take my cdl test and bought a few of them to fill out in case the tester was strict about it. He didn't care, so I never filled them out. I am state certified in most HD repair categories, so I just figured I'd fill it out myself....lol.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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What about a 1 ton dually and a 48ft gooseneck? I just looked a the Mi laws and they say only need a CDL if GCVW is over 26,001, trailer alone could be 15K if the truck is light enough as my 3/4 2500 is rated 9K GVWR just looked. Again it's mostly the nice officer you are talking to more than the actual laws.

And I did'nt see anything saying the Ohio laws where for commercial just weights??
 
Posts: 610 | Location: nw ohio | Registered: November 20, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
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quote:
Originally posted by HR3377:
What about a 1 ton dually and a 48ft gooseneck? I just looked a the Mi laws and they say only need a CDL if GCVW is over 26,001, trailer alone could be 15K if the truck is light enough as my 3/4 2500 is rated 9K GVWR just looked. Again it's mostly the nice officer you are talking to more than the actual laws.

And I did'nt see anything saying the Ohio laws where for commercial just weights??


I'm not really up on truck and trailer stuff, but it is my understanding that as long as it is non commercial(no sponsors, no stickers, no tax writeoffs, etc) your fine as long as the truck is rated to carry the weight and the length is legal. Something I learned doing my cdl stuff is that DOT goes by the stickered gvwr on the truck and trailer. So if your dually is rated at 14,200 and trailer at 15K, your considered a combined weight of 29,200....even if your empty.

The cover page of the Ohio book you posted says "commercial" right on it.....same as Michigan's.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of pentastarrail
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Directly from the Ohio DOT website.
https://www.bmv.ohio.gov/dl-cdl-exemptions.aspx

Ohio RV's are exempt from ALL CDL requirements also.

I will say MOST if not ALL states EXEMPT RV's from CDL laws.
Smile


Man was not built to fly ... That's why he built HEMI's

Frank Zeffiro
ALIAS -- BIG KAHUNA
 
Posts: 955 | Location: Winchester, Connecticut | Registered: September 20, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
Picture of BD104X
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quote:
Originally posted by pentastarrail:
Directly from the Ohio DOT website.
https://www.bmv.ohio.gov/dl-cdl-exemptions.aspx

Ohio RV's are exempt from ALL CDL requirements also.

I will say MOST if not ALL states EXEMPT RV's from CDL laws.
Smile


Agreed, but if the nice (but misinformed) officer determines your trailer is commercial, then the RV is no longer exempt from the CDL requirements. That’s what worries me. A friend of mine brought up an excellent point: if I show up to take my CDL test in an RV, they won’t let me use it ... so how can you tell me I need a CDL to operate it? I printed off the Federal Motor Carriers laws someone posted earlier in this thread, highlighted all of the exemptions regarding hobbies & prize money and tossed it in the coach. To me, that is important because they can’t claim you commercial just because you won a few bucks or have sponsor stickers on your car. Hopefully I never need it but I figure it can’t hurt to have handy if some misguided LEO is convinced I’m Don Schumacher, because if he deems my (or your) trailer commercial then the MH exemption doesn’t apply and he can park you - that’s my concern.


Billy Duhs - BD104X@gmail.com
 
Posts: 635 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: February 26, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of pentastarrail
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Billy,
I agree 100%, they can pull us over for anything and if they are having a bad day we will be also.
Even though they are wrong they can do what they want and then we have to fight it.

I do the same thing, I have the documents AND the websites stating the exemptions i.e. prize money for a hobby and an RV ARE EXEMPT from a CDL.
As you stated, MANY states don't offer a CDL for an RV so how are we supposed to get one.

Basically THEY are bending the laws to fit their agenda.
The FMCA guidelines spell it out in great detail that RV's AND trailers for hobbies (even though you may get prize $$) are exempt.
The DOT guys know this stuff (that's why they do NOT want us to go into scales, etc), but not the leo's.
Eek


Man was not built to fly ... That's why he built HEMI's

Frank Zeffiro
ALIAS -- BIG KAHUNA
 
Posts: 955 | Location: Winchester, Connecticut | Registered: September 20, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BD104X:
quote:
Originally posted by pentastarrail:
Directly from the Ohio DOT website.
https://www.bmv.ohio.gov/dl-cdl-exemptions.aspx

Ohio RV's are exempt from ALL CDL requirements also.

I will say MOST if not ALL states EXEMPT RV's from CDL laws.
Smile


A friend of mine brought up an excellent point: if I show up to take my CDL test in an RV, they won’t let me use it ... so how can you tell me I need a CDL to operate it?


Maybe not in all states, but I took my cdl with my motorhome. I had to have my tester call the state though to verify.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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They can pull you over anytime for anything and find something to write you up for. They can come into your house, beat you up or even kill you and get away with it. All they have to say is "You were resisting". Period, that is it and they get away with Murder.

I have spent about 20 weeks of my life out of the Country in places like Vietnam, China, Russia, Aruba, Turkey and you rarely ever see police on the streets. You see security in the airports but even they are not nearly as bad as here. The last time I came back from out of Country on 14 mile drive home from airport to my house I saw 8 police and all were pulling over people and generating revenue. They are not "Serving and Protecting" they are writing people up. It is all about them taking you money and power over you. I spent about 8 weeks in Turkey and saw TWO police the whole time and one was asleep under a tree by the highway.

So the police can and do write you up for what ever they want because they are generating revenue. Think you can fight it in court? Where do you think the money goes to? They are part of the system to. If the law is real clear then you can beat it but if not then it is up to the police and judge.

But if you have your tags (taxes), and registration (fees)and insurance and all other things (taxes and Fees)in order maybe they will not get you too bad on the highway. Because after all it is a free country.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4053 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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Annual road fatalities per 100,000 motor vehicles:
China 104.5
Russia 53.4
Turkey 37.3
USA 12.9
Notable low score
United Kingdom 5.1
Notable high score
Saint Lucia 2103.3

So we may be getting SOME value from their patrols. Of course not all of the difference is from the difference in enforcement. But it is a factor certainly.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bucky,


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6419 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
I have fought a speeding ticket and won before but I had evidence that he was driving way faster than me before he even knew I was speeding. Maybe I was lucky or just went to court with all my duckies lined up.
I went to State police and verified I was legal with my truck but never with my motorhome, might be time to do that.
 
Posts: 2591 | Location: at the track | Registered: May 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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