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Originally posted by Big Steve: 2 biggest things I didnt like about the gas carb is the price of race gas is stupid high and the amount of heat the engine builds while running. I could cool it pretty quick when it was off but as soon as it was started the temp climbed rapidly. If you look at that nose it is sealed up pretty tight so no place for the heat to go unless you take the hood off.

Looks like the radiator could be sized more towards methanol fuel, ?

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Originally posted by markemark:

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Originally posted by Big Steve: 2 biggest things I didnt like about the gas carb is the price of race gas is stupid high and the amount of heat the engine builds while running. I could cool it pretty quick when it was off but as soon as it was started the temp climbed rapidly. If you look at that nose it is sealed up pretty tight so no place for the heat to go unless you take the hood off.

Looks like the radiator could be sized more towards methanol fuel, ?

Assuming it is the original PST radiator for SBC that is towed to the lanes. it had a 12 inch blow thru fan when I got it I changed to a 16 inch pull thru fan and that defiantly helped. It also had no trans cooler or provisions for one when I got it, I added a plate style cooler spaced out 1 inch in front of the radiator so that added some heat

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Originally posted by Big Steve:Assuming it is the original PST radiator for SBC that is towed to the lanes. it had a 12 inch blow thru fan when I got it I changed to a 16 inch pull thru fan and that defiantly helped. It also had no trans cooler or provisions for one when I got it, I added a plate style cooler spaced out 1 inch in front of the radiator so that added some heat

Does the back of the hood cowl go against the windshield with no gap for air?

For comparison on my 388 I have a Griffin that’s 17w 19t overall, use the same type oil cooler 6” in front with its own fan turning on at 180*. If trans fan turns on it’ll up the coolant temp slightly. Almost always on PP putting heat in the engine to leave at 173-5* using the same 0-1/2 pump as you but rotor style. My 4" cowl rear is open and front grill has air openings.

Hood and cowl is sealed tight against the windshield,

Original PST had a fiberglass or carbon fiber air pan scoop that would funnel air from the grill opening and sealed off all heat from the engine bay. This truck still has all the mounting tabs but the air pan is long gone over the years

Not having a forward facing scoop will hinder the performance some but I really like the look without it

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Big Steve,

I am disappointed in the results to say the least. Only got 2.5 runs Sunday due to track issues from heavy rain the previous day but gas carb was faster at this point with a 5.41 best on the MFI

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Originally posted by Big Steve:
I am disappointed in the results to say the least. Only got 2.5 runs Sunday due to track issues from heavy rain the previous day but gas carb was faster at this point with a 5.41 best on the MFI

Ok, 0.10 slower in 1/8. How much slower is the mfi in 60’ times?

Why so glum?. There is no magic and this was a lousy test day. Need a plan and some tune time on each system.

Looks like I have a worn/failing fuel pump. Pulled some old data logs from this motor and compared to the runs this weekend, fuel pressure is down 25psi at the same RPM with the same pill/nozzle tune up. This Ron's 0-1/2 Twin gear billet pump is 12 years old, was ran 6 seasons then sat on the shelf another 6 years.
Going to send it to Ron's and put it on the flow bench and see what I have

quote:

Originally posted by Big Steve: Looks like I have a worn/failing fuel pump. Pulled some old data logs from this motor and compared to the runs this weekend, fuel pressure is down 25psi at the same RPM with the same pill/nozzle tune up.

Do you have / use an EGT sensor?

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Originally posted by Big Steve:
The 1050 was spec out by Joe Jolly at SPE and Trevor Wiggins at Get'M carbs based on my combo. Pretty sure between the 2 of them they have quite a bit of experience choosing the proper carb size of an engine.
Terminator is a 2100 with 0-1/2 twin gear billet pump
2 biggest things I didnt like about the gas carb is the price of race gas is stupid high and the amount of heat the engine builds while running. I could cool it pretty quick when it was off but as soon as it was started the temp climbed rapidly. If you look at that nose it is sealed up pretty tight so no place for the heat to go unless you take the hood off.

I agree with you on most of that but still think the 1050 is way too small for your 565.

On my 409 SB2 SBC that makes 800 APD recommended a 1175 CFM carb. With a 150+ cubic inches and more power I would think you would need much bigger carb to feed it.

Sorry your testing did not go well. I though the Rons MFI would have really helped it. Do you have bigger nozzles to try to get more fuel in motor?

Steve,

I ran an alky terminator on my 565 for a long time. The only reason I removed it was my engine builder wanted me to run a gas carb and under carb stop for Super/Comp. I sent mine to Steve Casner and had everything flowed. He did replace two things, my barrel valve with the older purple one and he used Waterman nozzles.

That system worked great, I used the black Ron's 0 1/2 pump. It's actually still on the car, I will never go back to an electric pump even with gas. I had three pills, one for Denver, one for Roswell/Tucson and the other for Dallas/Houston. Otherwise once I got it set up I never changed anything but that and I would have to open the throttle blades from .010 to .014 at Denver or it wouldn't idle properly.

I think you'll get it figured out. I know you ran the blower a long time so the injection should be a piece of cake.

I'm currently running a Mark Whitener gas carb, probably based off a 1050 and it seems to work fine. Gas is simpler but alcohol sure keeps them cool bracket racing. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Vern, I have 6 solid seasons running this same exact combo, like you said once you find the sweet spot you just forget it. When I started looking at the old run data last night and saw the fuel pressure was down 25psi, and that's a lot for this little pump, I knew I had found the problem, I went down that same path on the blower motor with the Enderle gear pump, only with it I was also running a flow meter and couldn't get enough fuel in the motor and cost me a couple of pistons. Once I sent the pump in, had it flowed and and the clearance tightened back up where it should be it was back to normal again.

I have never gone slower on alky. I have never gone that big either sbc cubes though. If heat is any kind of issue, just use the methanol.

A few here have mentioned efi with methanol. Those running it: how do you keep injectors from sticking? I run the 210’s and I seem to stick them if I let it sit for a few weeks

quote:

Originally posted by Big Steve:
Looks like I have a worn/failing fuel pump. Pulled some old data logs from this motor and compared to the runs this weekend, fuel pressure is down 25psi at the same RPM with the same pill/nozzle tune up. This Ron's 0-1/2 Twin gear billet pump is 12 years old, was ran 6 seasons then sat on the shelf another 6 years.
Going to send it to Ron's and put it on the flow bench and see what I have

Since you mentioned the surge tank setup is new, I’d investigate that and make sure it’s working properly before sending the pump in. Perhaps it’s starving the pump of fuel. Also make sure it can’t be sucking air anywhere on the inlet side of the pump such as from a leaky fitting. If the pump was fine when you put it on the shelf it’s unlikely that it’s all of a sudden 25psi low.

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Originally posted by 183N:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Steve:
Looks like I have a worn/failing fuel pump. Pulled some old data logs from this motor and compared to the runs this weekend, fuel pressure is down 25psi at the same RPM with the same pill/nozzle tune up. This Ron's 0-1/2 Twin gear billet pump is 12 years old, was ran 6 seasons then sat on the shelf another 6 years.
Going to send it to Ron's and put it on the flow bench and see what I have

Since you mentioned the surge tank setup is new, I’d investigate that and make sure it’s working properly before sending the pump in. Perhaps it’s starving the pump of fuel. Also make sure it can’t be sucking air anywhere on the inlet side of the pump such as from a leaky fitting. If the pump was fine when you put it on the shelf it’s unlikely that it’s all of a sudden 25psi low.

On a mechanical pump and injection in the past and had a problem of the black braided fuel line collapsing under pressure and starving the engine of fuel

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A few here have mentioned efi with methanol. Those running it: how do you keep injectors from sticking? I run the 210’s and I seem to stick them if I let it sit for a few weeks

I use methanol with FIC 1000cc injectors and run the system at 4 bar. FIC states in their FAQ to run fuel lube with methanol. I have always used Klotz Uplon (mfi / efi) and add a full qt to the drum when I pick it up at my distributor (Fuse Fuels).

I always keep the 3 gal front methanol tank full when not racing. If car sits longer than three weeks between races, I’ll start it the third weekend and get the engine oil to temp to cycle the fuel. The engine is running on a primer plus the majority of the time and the injection gets cycled but using little fuel.

At the end of the season, I remove the fuel line feed from the bottom of the tank to the 0-1/2 pump and let methanol drain. Attach fuel line and put 2 gal of 93 pump gas with Uplon and Seafoam in the tank. My efi is in series with the regulator at the end and the open regulator outlet has a capped 6an fitting. Remove the cap, add a fuel line to a jug and manually run the pump with a pulley in a battery drill to purge the system removing half a gallon of fuel.

In EFI, use the existing methanol map, multiply by 0.435 to modify, change fuel type from methanol to gas, save and load. Start the engine on PP and switch over to EFI running half gallon through the injectors getting everything to max temps. Idles and revs normally on EFI with pump gas. Leave it sit this way until spring and reverse the procedure going to methanol.

These FIC injectors with intake were installed in June 2021 when I switched from MFI to EFI and have not been removed. These will get cycled out when I replace the engine mid-summer this year.

Not to hijack this thread but I bought a terminator to try out. What kind of pump pressure do they have? I need to replace my current 0-15 sensor.

All depends on the pill/nozzle tune up and rpm range. I use a 0-200

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Originally posted by SP 124X:
Not to hijack this thread but I bought a terminator to try out. What kind of pump pressure do they have? .

Did you purchase a primer plus with the terminator system?

When I talked to John at the Rons pump shop, he said a 0 would dead head at about 140. Never seen more than 65 with 0 pump on sbc with mfi. Switched to 0-1/2 several months after going efi and overdriving this pump 5% with same engine.

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Originally posted by markemark:

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Originally posted by SP 124X:
Not to hijack this thread but I bought a terminator to try out. What kind of pump pressure do they have? .

Did you purchase a primer plus with the terminator system?

When I talked to John at the Rons pump shop, he said a 0 would dead head at about 140. Never seen more than 65 with 0 pump on sbc with mfi. Switched to 0-1/2 several months after going efi and overdriving this pump 5% with same engine.

It has a standard primer but I'll be getting the primer plus plate.

Thanks for the pump data.