Last night going rounds in both no box and box race, car is running the numbers. Opponent red lights and I run it out the back and car runs .2sec off dial!

Check everything upon returning (racepak etc) and can't find anything obvious. Motor sounds good and didn't seem different down track.

Get called out to the next round. Burnout strong and no signs of anything. All temps exactly like they always are on racepak.

Stage the car, bump in...set trans brake - light start I floor it and car pushes through the beams.

Drive it down and to return road. Stop - set trans brake it works fine. Stop - set trans brake it works fine. Repeat - again fine.

Drive back around and convince myself I didnt put it in first gear (which I know in my routine I do it 10times out of habit and watching videos of the past.) But clear my mind and think that had to be it.

Get called back to race. Again everything is perfect in burnout. Approach the tree. Purposely check the shifter 5 times both pulling it back in and visually. Stage - set brake, lights start, floor it - freaking car pushes through again!

Get to return road - set brake floor it and it works perfectly. Repeat several times....works every time.

Drive back to pits - get car in safe position (pitted near open field) - set brake and it works 5 more times. Moving shifter around etc. Only thing I couldnt duplicate was the burnout.....WTF.

Ideas??

Assuming that the .2sec off dial has something to do with bands not holding or something partially open or pressures.

I am interested in the responses. I had a similar situation minus the slower ET. We attributed it to wrong solenoid for the valve body but I could get over why it worked every time in the pits but staged and pushed through 3xs. It is long since resolved but I'm interested in what the guys that know the ins and outs of trannys.

I am interested in the responses. I had a similar situation minus the slower ET. We attributed it to wrong solenoid for the valve body but I could get over why it worked every time in the pits but staged and pushed through 3xs. Never did a AA-BA-AB-BB comparision but it was a best guess and seemed logical. It is long since resolved but I'm interested in what the guys that know the ins and outs of trannys.

Should add this a fresh rebuilt powerglide from Rossler with about 40-50 passes on it. Worked every time up to this point.

Nothing was touched obvoiusly between working and not.

trans temp always around 160 on racepak.

Temps on runs prior only climb about 4* during pass - after they climb the normal 20-30 and cool right back down with Jones pump and trans cooler.

quote:

Originally posted by BG7X77:
I am interested in the responses. I had a similar situation minus the slower ET. We attributed it to wrong solenoid for the valve body but I could get over why it worked every time in the pits but staged and pushed through 3xs. Never did a AA-BA-AB-BB comparision but it was a best guess and seemed logical. It is long since resolved but I'm interested in what the guys that know the ins and outs of trannys.

Did yours ever work? And cant imagine that Rossler would put the wrong parts together and it would work for 40-50 passes then stop.

Car normally repeats within .00X

Last two runs prior to no brake, MPH went from 122.XX to 119.XX

Something has to be stuck or something.

First thing you do before you pull it out is check the pressures at the reverse tap and servo. Always check your transmission pressures between 2000-2200 rpm.

Check the reverse tap on the brake and also with the shifter in reverse, back up button applied.

Check at the servo in low and high. Also check in low at idle, the pressure should be within 25psi at idle to 2200 rpm.

When you slow down two tenths, it's the converter (pressure), if the transmission slips enough to slow down two tenths, it won't move the next time you put it in gear.

This is where a racepak is beneficial, because you can overlay the runs to look at the converter (for the two tenths slow pass).

I suspect you have a pressure regulator problem (valve body), or pump or stator problem. This is a wild guess without filling in many blanks.

Check the pressures.

Describe your staging procedure if you like, that'll fill in a few of the blanks, did you feel the brake set before it "pushed" though? Or was it more like it had no trans brake at all?

Is the timing equipment good at this track?

If it weren't for the two tenths slow run, I'd suggest reading the pressure at the reverse tap while screwing the TB solenoid in and out, until it achieved it's highest pressure on the Trans brake.

But if it was two tenths slow on a seemingly clean run, you have other problems than just low pressure at the reverse tap on the brake, causing reverse to not hold the car on the starting line.

If you have racepak, look at the converter on that run.

What kind of timing equipment is it? Does it ever glitch?

posted August 15, 2020 08:50 AM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BG7X77:
I am interested in the responses. I had a similar situation minus the slower ET. We attributed it to wrong solenoid for the valve body but I could get over why it worked every time in the pits but staged and pushed through 3xs. Never did a AA-BA-AB-BB comparision but it was a best guess and seemed logical. It is long since resolved but I'm interested in what the guys that know the ins and outs of trannys.


Did yours ever work? And cant imagine that Rossler would put the wrong parts together and it would work for 40-50 passes then stop.


I was borrowing my buddies transmission to do a validation on mine (trying to isolate a vibration). It worked several passes and then pushed through the lights. Worked in pits like 7 times and then did it again at the starting line pushing through. My buddy had stuck my solenoid on his tranny because it had a quick connect. Later learned that wasn't a good idea because of solenoid throws possibly being different but at the time we were ignorant of that fact. I took mine and had Marco go through all my stuff and have been running it ever since. Both Rossler and Marco build a great tranny.

Mine lost about .2 when it broke a Sprag? in the converter.

For transbrake not holding or reaction times starting to get goofy I will replace solenoid with a new one. I consider the solenoid as a wear and tear item.

I would be checking anything trans related, most likely it’s a valve body issue of some sort, possibly the plunger and/or solenoid.

Shane Carr

quote:

Originally posted by ski_dwn_it:
Last night going rounds in both no box and box race, car is running the numbers. Opponent red lights and I run it out the back and car runs .2sec off dial!

Check everything upon returning (racepak etc) and can't find anything obvious. Motor sounds good and didn't seem different down track.

Get called out to the next round. Burnout strong and no signs of anything. All temps exactly like they always are on racepak.

Stage the car, bump in...set trans brake - light start I floor it and car pushes through the beams.

Drive it down and to return road. Stop - set trans brake it works fine. Stop - set trans brake it works fine. Repeat - again fine.

Drive back around and convince myself I didnt put it in first gear (which I know in my routine I do it 10times out of habit and watching videos of the past.) But clear my mind and think that had to be it.

Get called back to race. Again everything is perfect in burnout. Approach the tree. Purposely check the shifter 5 times both pulling it back in and visually. Stage - set brake, lights start, floor it - freaking car pushes through again!

Get to return road - set brake floor it and it works perfectly. Repeat several times....works every time.

Drive back to pits - get car in safe position (pitted near open field) - set brake and it works 5 more times. Moving shifter around etc. Only thing I couldnt duplicate was the burnout.....WTF.

Ideas??

Assuming that the .2sec off dial has something to do with bands not holding or something partially open or pressures.

I'm curious about what seems to be the start of the issues, .2 off the dial! The obvious should show in your 60' time and/or a combination of your split times. This may or may not help you towards your other problems.

Thanks for the input.

Someone asked about staging routine. It is the same one I have employed for years so it would be tough for me to change it or miss anything that seemingly worked before.

The car "felt" like it had resistance, but I have a front wheel line lock to prevent any movement when I get into the beams. So my usual routine is to bring RPMs up slightly, bump in which is a slow process I do not rush. Get the car to flicker the light, if it holds on yellow then I set tbrake, and remove foot from brake peddle and get ready to mat it. Car usually never moves from that position until Tbrake is released. These instances - as soon as I would start to mat it the car would push through - assuming the resistance was the front wheels pushing. I have videos of it I will take a closer look at a spectator took by chance and sent me.

Drove car down once red lit, and tried it immediately on the return road and it would work. Shut car off, cycled the shifter in the pits, and it worked each time before and after the times it failed. The only thing I can imagine is the burnout (done in 2nd gear as per Rossler), is creating some sorta deficiency in the Tbrake circuit that maybe is getting refilled and why it works when I try it later. Obviously I can't replicate the Burnout.

Today I may piss the neighbors off and do some on the road in front of my house and see if it repeats - but might wait to talk to Rossler before trashing something. I am sure he will have some ideas also.

Transmissions I am not familiar with - so to check these line pressures I would have to get a gauge and have detailed instructions of these locations to test.

Facts are:

Trans is fresh as of this year. About 50-70 passes this year. Car last week and this week were consistent 5.7X passes, within a day its usually <.01 difference. Started out that way this day then went a 5.93 & then a 5.97. MPH went from 122.xx to 119.xx

Next two attempts it pushed through the beams.

quote:

Originally posted by B KING:

quote:

Originally posted by ski_dwn_it:
Last night going rounds in both no box and box race, car is running the numbers. Opponent red lights and I run it out the back and car runs .2sec off dial!

Check everything upon returning (racepak etc) and can't find anything obvious. Motor sounds good and didn't seem different down track.

Get called out to the next round. Burnout strong and no signs of anything. All temps exactly like they always are on racepak.

Stage the car, bump in...set trans brake - light start I floor it and car pushes through the beams.

Drive it down and to return road. Stop - set trans brake it works fine. Stop - set trans brake it works fine. Repeat - again fine.

Drive back around and convince myself I didnt put it in first gear (which I know in my routine I do it 10times out of habit and watching videos of the past.) But clear my mind and think that had to be it.

Get called back to race. Again everything is perfect in burnout. Approach the tree. Purposely check the shifter 5 times both pulling it back in and visually. Stage - set brake, lights start, floor it - freaking car pushes through again!

Get to return road - set brake floor it and it works perfectly. Repeat several times....works every time.

Drive back to pits - get car in safe position (pitted near open field) - set brake and it works 5 more times. Moving shifter around etc. Only thing I couldnt duplicate was the burnout.....WTF.

Ideas??

Assuming that the .2sec off dial has something to do with bands not holding or something partially open or pressures.

I'm curious about what seems to be the start of the issues, .2 off the dial! The obvious should show in your 60' time and/or a combination of your split times. This may or may not help you towards your other problems.

have ifamily logger and it showed all intervals off. Assuming trans was slipping but temps on racepak did not indicate increase in temps going down track. Only about 4* increase - then it always on return road heats up as usually about 20* to around 190-200* then cools back down. I have a Jones pump to accelerate the cooling.

No need to terrorize the neighborhood. You need a 300 - 350 psi guage.

Instructions are my first post.

Look at pressure or have someone look at pressures, before you burn anymore fuel.

Can you post a photo of a 5.90 and 5.70 racepak graph?

If you make the effort to learn this vs just taking it to someone, you'll be able to incorporate logging converter and line pressure into your racing program using racepak.

Next time, you won't be puzzled when it slows two tenths.


.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,

Thanks Mike. Can you detail out how you log the transmission - what sensors and how you have it plumbed as that sounds like a good idea moving forward.

Question also - which is the out port on the PG (top or bottom?)

Little more information. I had to work this weekend and got my kids back so only had enough time to get car out of the trailer and put it up on the lift. Car drives fine and feels exactly the same. Didnt try brake as I didnt want to hammer on anything until I know more.

Upon getting car on the lift I checked fluid - level is good but the fluid is BLACK. Drained some into a container and its definitely burt by the looks and smell.

Trans probably has 40 runs on it. Car repeated well up until these last few runs. Best was a 5.86, usually have it dialed back off the hit and run 5.72s. Car is 3040lbs. 60ft is the only place it varies if it does, which lately the track temps are extreme and everyone is having issues.

The lower cooler is closest external place to read converter pressure.

The tap on the servo cover is line pressure. This guy has a T for a mechanical guage to read transmission oil pressure from the driver seat, every time he puts it in low or high gear, akin to reading engine oil pressure.

It saved him from sizzling this transmission once, when the pressure regulator hung up in his valve body, previous to that he had been experiencing intermittent low pressure with a VB that came in the transmission, so I suggested the guage.

This is possibly what happened in your instance, or ya got a pump eating itself out of tolerance.

If you're not a trans guy, a oil pressure guage, you can verify pressure is good to have, for these reasons. You can catch it before sizzling a transmission.

As you can see he also logs line and converter pressure (racepak).

So the lower line is the exit to the cooler and top is the return from cooler?

quote:

Originally posted by ski_dwn_it:
So the lower line is the exit to the cooler and top is the return from cooler?

Yeah, if you run a cooler something to consider. What I do to verify the cooler flows, I look at pressure on both sides using a hand held guage before installing the racepak on the lower port as permanent. I like a B&M Ford style cooler for flow.

Any photo I put up you can zoom in, they'll answer a lot of questions.

Update:

Converter appears to have broke and sent garbage all through trans. Appeared to be mostly brass shavings.

Getting ringless shaft put in it too for added strength. Per Rossler's recommendation with weight of car and power motor is making.

Rossler pulled trans apart and converter is at Abruzzi's getting some R&R.

Would definately like to get loggin these items mentioned. Right now my main thing is to get it back together so run points this weekend.