Good info, guys.
I use the blue full synthetic VR1 racing oil from Valvoline. Comes in black bottles. I like the fact that it is a bright clear cobalt blue color, and if there is any water in it, it will turn green. About the only place that I can find it is on Amazon, and some Napa and Advance stores. Bearings & piston skirts still look brand new after several seasons. It specifically recommends use in alcohol burners. No corrosion noted, even after sitting over the winter. Valve train parts appear to retain a light coating of lubricant on them.

Not wanting to derail the thread, but in a somewhat related issue, I run cast aluminum valve covers. Even though I heat the engine before loading the car into the trailer, when I pull the V.C.'s to check the valve clearances, there is almost always some condensation on them. More so when the weather is humid or cool. It has me considering going back to steel covers. Wondering if anyone else has seen this with cast covers. How about fabbed covers? I know they are available in aluminum and steel, wondering if it is the material, or the thickness that is causing the issue. (I run header evacs, no vac pump. Considering going the pump route also).

https://www.enginelabs.com/eng...-on-your-engine-oil/
This article is one of the things that made me post the question. I know in this article and most others about methanol they always relate to drag race cars that don't build heat. For me it seems heat is my friend when running methanol.
My crude experiment with 3 oils I had handy in the shop is still ongoing. On my eyeball measured samples in 3 clear bottles when shook they all mixed with the methanol. One dino oil separated pretty quickly then it took a day for the synthetic to separate. I haven't checked them yet today but the most wisely used dino oil was still mixed and milky with very little methanol floating on the top.

I would find the milky snot on my valve covers and on the stud girdle even with steel covers and iron heads running gas. I run evac tubes in the headers also. Motor now has aluminum heads and valve covers and I would find some snot inside. I would pull the breathers when I rolled it out of the trailer and find the snot in the breather. Then I had the realization that despite putting the car away HOT, water over 200 and oil over 180, after shutting the motor the engine could not breathe. The check valves in the tubes close and the engine can't get rid of the alcohol and moisture. Now I get it hot and pull the breaters and it's clean and clear.

quote:

Originally posted by FootbrakeJim:
Not wanting to derail the thread, but in a somewhat related issue, I run cast aluminum valve covers. Even though I heat the engine before loading the car into the trailer, when I pull the V.C.'s to check the valve clearances, there is almost always some condensation on them. More so when the weather is humid or cool. It has me considering going back to steel covers. Wondering if anyone else has seen this with cast covers. How about fabbed covers? I know they are available in aluminum and steel, wondering if it is the material, or the thickness that is causing the issue. (I run header evacs, no vac pump. Considering going the pump route also).

I ran cast aluminum covers & switched to fabricated aluminum covers. I heat soak the motor to 200* & end the day heating to 200*. I still get some condensation in the covers/breathers in the winter & cooler months. Bear in mind, I live in NV. low humidity & I use 100 UL pump gas. It does have ethanol in the blend.

2BKING

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:
https://www.enginelabs.com/eng...-on-your-engine-oil/
This article is one of the things that made me post the question. I know in this article and most others about methanol they always relate to drag race cars that don't build heat. For me it seems heat is my friend when running methanol.
My crude experiment with 3 oils I had handy in the shop is still ongoing. On my eyeball measured samples in 3 clear bottles when shook they all mixed with the methanol. One dino oil separated pretty quickly then it took a day for the synthetic to separate. I haven't checked them yet today but the most wisely used dino oil was still mixed and milky with very little methanol floating on the top.

Good article… looks like Gibbs is recommending synthetic (XP6 / 9) for methanol. Would like to hear your results and name the oils used and quantity of oil to methanol mixed in your experiment.

Oil and Methanol are not miscible. It will always separate, the rate of separation is what's in question here.

Google Search:
miscible
ˈmi-sə-bəl
adjective
capable of being mixed, capable of mixing in any ratio without separation of two phases

"Oil and water don’t mix because oil is made up of non-polar molecules while water molecules are polar.

Methanol is polar in nature because the OH group dominates and makes it polar."

Mixing oil and methanol is like mixing oil and water.

If you run methanol, you should have a vacuum pump, it should pull adequate vacuum to evacuate the crankcase at an idle and pull at least some vacuum while the engine is at WOT. For wet sumps i've always heard 10-12" of water is the max, as long as mine is pulling vacuum at an idle and doesn't push oil out of during a pass, its good enough to keep the oil clean. The 10-12" recommendation is supposed to be best case for ring seal and ensuring adequate oil supply to the oil pump. I have no experience with a dry sump.

Someone already stated that methanol boils at 150ish degrees F, so pulling a vacuum on the crankcase will cause the boiling temp of methanol to decrease to something less than 150. IE if your vacuum pump pulls any measurable vacuum on the crankcase, the methanol will evaporate at temps even lower than its boiling point.

I use regular castrol 20wx50, 4 vane Moroso vacuum pump @60% of crank RPM, MFI, Enderle hat, TBS 250, no issues with oil, I change it when I feel guilty, usually around 40-50 passes. For the most part I has a green tint to it, but never had an issue with oil breakdown.

quote:

Originally posted by Triple Nickel: I use regular Castrol 20w50, 4 vane Moroso vacuum pump @60% of crank RPM, MFI, Enderle hat, TBS 250, no issues with oil, I change it when I feel guilty, usually around 40-50 passes. For the most part it has a green tint to it, but never had an issue with oil breakdown.

That’s high zinc and phosphorus SJ rated oil compatible with gasoline and alcohol for race cars.

Oils I used were what I had on the shelf, Mobil 1 15w-50, Rotella T4 and Valvoline VR-1 20w-50. Measurement was crude by eye in a plastic container about 20% methanol to oil. Just shook them up and let them sit. Rotella cleared up quickly, Mobil 1 took longer, VR-1 still hasn't cleared up still milky looking. Just for a test I put more methanol in the Rotella and shook it up and shook the others and again the Rotella cleared up first. They are all sitting open on the bench garage is 80+ degrees. Not as scientific of an experiment as it should be but pretty obvious results if it means anything.
FWIW I have the VR-1 in my motor and it stays clear on methanol and the engine temps I run sing evac tubes.

Here is a little trick I did with the blown TD, oil had to come out every 4 or 5 runs anyways, Nature of the beast, instead of tossing it which became very expensive I used a SS Stock pot sitting on an electric hot plate. I would heat oil up to about 165* and let the alky boil out for a couple of hours then dump it right back in the engine.

^^^^^^ Steve.. that’s an Excellent idea. What brand oil was that?

I ran Redline 60 Synthetic racing until their price just got stupid high then switched to Lucas 60 plus racing conventional and saved about $7 a qt.
That oil is blue so Lucas 60 plus and I liked it much better

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Big Steve,

I have done the exact same thing Steve. I got a bunch of alcohol in the oil one time. Was running Amsoil then. It had a couple passes on it and no way was I dumping it. LOL Worked like a champ.

For those who do not have system tuned out and are milking the oil. You can simple dump oil into big pot sitting over heat bring oild to 185 to 200 and all alky will be gone and 90% of water and at 220 almost every drop of water gone. Does not hurt oil hell most street BBC run thqt high temp.

I know some ngoing to say stupid. Hey at 80 bucks per oil change it adds up to bunch if changing every couple weekends.

quote:

Originally posted by wideopen231:
For those who do not have system tuned out and are milking the oil. You can simple dump oil into big pot sitting over heat bring oild to 185 to 200 and all alky will be gone and 90% of water and at 220 almost every drop of water gone. Does not hurt oil hell most street BBC run thqt high temp.

I know some ngoing to say stupid. Hey at 80 bucks per oil change it adds up to bunch if changing every couple weekends.

I remember at one time either a Alcohol racer or fuel guy had a "tool" built that they put their used oil in that circulated it and heated it to get the alky and moisture out. Seemed to work..

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:
Motor now has aluminum heads and valve covers and I would find some snot inside. I would pull the breathers when I rolled it out of the trailer and find the snot in the breather. Then I had the realization that despite putting the car away HOT, water over 200 and oil over 180, after shutting the motor the engine could not breathe. The check valves in the tubes close and the engine can't get rid of the alcohol and moisture. Now I get it hot and pull the breathers and it's clean and clear.

Eman, I think you nailed the source of my condensation issue. Even though I get things hot enough to vaporize the alky and the water, there is no way for those vapors to escape. So as the engine cools, the steam and alky gasses condense back to liquid form. My cast covers have non-removable breathers on them, (unless I pull the covers). Which is why I am planning to swap back to my steel covers that have removable breathers. I am still considering adding a vacuum pump to the new build as well.

quote:

Originally posted by FootbrakeJim:

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:
Motor now has aluminum heads and valve covers and I would find some snot inside. I would pull the breathers when I rolled it out of the trailer and find the snot in the breather. Then I had the realization that despite putting the car away HOT, water over 200 and oil over 180, after shutting the motor the engine could not breathe. The check valves in the tubes close and the engine can't get rid of the alcohol and moisture. Now I get it hot and pull the breathers and it's clean and clear.

Eman, I think you nailed the source of my condensation issue. Even though I get things hot enough to vaporize the alky and the water, there is no way for those vapors to escape. So as the engine cools, the steam and alky gasses condense back to liquid form. My cast covers have non-removable breathers on them, (unless I pull the covers). Which is why I am planning to swap back to my steel covers that have removable breathers. I am still considering adding a vacuum pump to the new build as well.

IMO, Any serious motor should have a vacuum pump... as soon as my temp gauge hits 150 during warm-up you can see the steam start coming out of the breather on the puke can but it stops after 5 minutes or so. I empty the can at the start of every race day and typically get maybe 2-4 ounces of oil and 4-8 ounces of water. No way a header evac system is going to do that, especially on a 500+ inch motor. Not only will it keep your oil clean which could potentially improve longevity but it's also worth a few horsepower - that's a rare win-win in racing.

I have a small motor, and a grand buys a lot of oil and filters.

Time for a chemistry question. After the initial mixing of the oil/methanol mixture the oil methanol mixtures all eventually separated. Initially the methanol floated on top of the oil. Now after sitting a few days I looked and the methanol appears to be on the bottom. All of the containers were left open. Did the methanol absorb water?

Anyh moisture in engine will be asorbed by the alky. Hell if a half empty barrel can almost fill it self. Simply boiling it will get it all out or you can pump about 75% of oil out

All motors will get some fuel and water in the oil. Gas engines typically run hotter oil and it evaporates out quicker. With alcohol many do not get enough heat in the motor and we use more alcohol than gas so that compounds the issue.

Just get the oil hotter to evaporate the fuel and water out.

Methanol will absorb water but I do not think it is a big issue. I try to keep my jugs closed but I have never measured any changes with my Hygrometers so I do not think it is as big of a problem as some think.

I started running alcohol back in 1998 and for me the key was a leanout valve and getting motor good and hot before I put it on the trailer to go home. Water boils at 212* and Methanol boils at 148*. Both have a lower boiling point in a vacuum so running a vacuum pump will help some with removing the moisture.

quote:

Originally posted by Curly1:
All motors will get some fuel and water in the oil. Gas engines typically run hotter oil and it evaporates out quicker. With alcohol many do not get enough heat in the motor and we use more alcohol than gas so that compounds the issue.

Just get the oil hotter to evaporate the fuel and water out.

Methanol will absorb water but I do not think it is a big issue. I try to keep my jugs closed but I have never measured any changes with my Hygrometers so I do not think it is as big of a problem as some think.

I started running alcohol back in 1998 and for me the key was a leanout valve and getting motor good and hot before I put it on the trailer to go home. Water boils at 212* and Methanol boils at 148*. Both have a lower boiling point in a vacuum so running a vacuum pump will help some with removing the moisture.

Have to disagree. I have had arun kicked out for something in alky.It rained night before and even tech told me if car was out it could asorb enough to make look bad. I have had a barrle in rack and someone did not tiughten lid and is asorbed a bunch of water over 3 month period,was laying on side so not water running in.
Agree tight cap on jugs huge help. ev en is sitting in trailer fuel in tank will absorb water from bumidity in air. Reason I drain tank and/or plug vent.Ps do not for get to unplug when running another one fo those how do I know this things.

I do agree that if you ruin engine and get temp up to 180 plus with vents open most alky will be gone. I have gas hook up for just this reason. I guess if can heat oil in pan with electric heater to above 180 would do the same thing,never tried that one.

Sometimes if hard starting on alky you will psh a lot into pan too. Starting on gas/alky mix helps here too.

If running primer system. Setting it very lean makes most of this not needed too. I set mine so car will run and will ride threw pits but it usually needs me cracking fuel shut off some to kepp idle down.

IMO thats what colol about MFI is all the ways you can manipulate it and guess can do same with EFI.

Been on alky for years. I run simple Castrol 20w50 non synthetic.. Have had motor apart and it looked like new. Change oil every 20-30 runs.. Sometimes closer to 50 if I'm hitting a bunch of races.

Have clear view filter on each car. Oil on startup goes from dark brown (normal looking oil) to coffee with lots of cream in it. Take the motor to 200 degrees first start up and you can watch it return to normal (brown).. oil is fine rest of the day if you keep it up to temp.

Drain the vacuum can there is about a cup of water after that first startup. After that is stays empty. Might get a dribble of oil.

Why put 100 dollar oil in it when it can be done for 40. We certainly aren't getting rich in bracket racing even if you win occasionally.