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DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
Glad you got it going in right direction but question I don’t run alcohol but sounds fat to me because of your comment that it didn’t gain any heat in pass shouldn’t it climb some
 
Posts: 386 | Location: Natick MA | Registered: November 15, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
I am glad you found some et with the fuel but I think you have a sprag slipping in the converter. I had a graph that looked identical to yours. it would flash right then .5 in to the run it was down 3 to 400 rpm and would flat line then start picking up rpm. shift went from 2.10 to 2.50 to reach 7000. mine slowed down about a tenth. it was consistent just slow. I changed everything in the car except the converter and nothing helped. changed converter and it did not lose the rpm after the initial flash and found my et.

not saying that fuel is not a problem but it should not drop that much rpm after the flash. imo. if you have access to another converter I would definitely try it.

ep-I fought mine for a year because everybody said the flash was right and the drop at gear change was right so it can't be converter. but it was. everyone felt like mine was fuel related.
 
Posts: 757 | Location: dodging double wides... | Registered: November 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CHampshire:
Mike,

It has Penske doubles on the back. Qa1 on the front suspension (Diamond double suspended car). When we bought the car, the other guy had a 632 in it with an aluminum block. We have never turned a knob on any of the dampers. I'm sure it needs tweaking!

Jeff,
We will check out the vacuum pump for sure. Good idea and something that is easy to check and easy to over look.

Don,
I am pretty sure you are probably right. I am using a TAG hand held from the 90's. First gen to boot. Have had it forever. One of these days we will update to a trailer unit like you sell. Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it!


That's cool, if it's a modern newer car it has shorter stroke dampers. I like the white. Lots of white cars being done all categories, I like em.

Looks good, you did the right thing with the fuel system as well, good call!

I don't believe the converter is hurt, I'd be surprised if the converter even has a sprag. There's people out there (TSI) who can build a spragless to be just as fast as a sprag. I'd imagine Abruzzi is probably one of em.

Won't hurt to try another though, no two converters are identical.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
I run a TSI spragless, as far as I can tell the car is the quickest / fastest 3250 lb all steel street car on a 10 x 28 (bias) n/a 23 sbc with out of the box Brodix Track 1's, in the country. I'll keep looking for one faster.

I see no reason for a sprag. I'd be surprised if it is a sprag converter.

 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by pauley:
I am glad you found some et with the fuel but I think you have a sprag slipping in the converter. I had a graph that looked identical to yours. it would flash right then .5 in to the run it was down 3 to 400 rpm and would flat line then start picking up rpm. shift went from 2.10 to 2.50 to reach 7000. mine slowed down about a tenth. it was consistent just slow. I changed everything in the car except the converter and nothing helped. changed converter and it did not lose the rpm after the initial flash and found my et.

not saying that fuel is not a problem but it should not drop that much rpm after the flash. imo. if you have access to another converter I would definitely try it.

ep-I fought mine for a year because everybody said the flash was right and the drop at gear change was right so it can't be converter. but it was. everyone felt like mine was fuel related.


Are you referring to this dip I circled?


I am actually borrowing a convertor for this weekend from a friend who has an identical car to mine. Same chassis builder. Same rear gear. Same engine size. Both motors dynoed at the same shop and made within 30 hp of each other. Same trans ratios. Only thing is he runs a little smaller tire and different convertor. He is .080 faster and only 1 mph faster. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out!
 
Posts: 97 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 06, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CHampshire:
quote:
Originally posted by pauley:
I am glad you found some et with the fuel but I think you have a sprag slipping in the converter. I had a graph that looked identical to yours. it would flash right then .5 in to the run it was down 3 to 400 rpm and would flat line then start picking up rpm. shift went from 2.10 to 2.50 to reach 7000. mine slowed down about a tenth. it was consistent just slow. I changed everything in the car except the converter and nothing helped. changed converter and it did not lose the rpm after the initial flash and found my et.

not saying that fuel is not a problem but it should not drop that much rpm after the flash. imo. if you have access to another converter I would definitely try it.

ep-I fought mine for a year because everybody said the flash was right and the drop at gear change was right so it can't be converter. but it was. everyone felt like mine was fuel related.


Are you referring to this dip I circled?


I am actually borrowing a convertor for this weekend from a friend who has an identical car to mine. Same chassis builder. Same rear gear. Same engine size. Both motors dynoed at the same shop and made within 30 hp of each other. Same trans ratios. Only thing is he runs a little smaller tire and different convertor. He is .080 faster and only 1 mph faster. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out!


080 hundredths is a lot!! LoL! I couldn't sleep at night if someone was that much faster same combo!! LoL! (sarcasm but kinda true).

Keep us posted on this shootout!!
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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quote:
Originally posted by Top355x:
Glad you got it going in right direction but question I don’t run alcohol but sounds fat to me because of your comment that it didn’t gain any heat in pass shouldn’t it climb some


I'm no alky expert either. Our first season using it. All I know is what I read on here mainly. It gained some water temp, maybe 5°. Easy to manage to cool it down. We just let it sit. It builds heat without the electric fan on, and once you turn the fan on it maintains and or cools it a bit. You can take some temp out with the fan in cooler weather like we had here last Sunday. It may be a touch rich now, I am not opposed to pulling some jet out and trying it. Bottom line is we are out of season and spent all year fixing problems. Rough season, but I think we are making ground on it. Something to look at next year for sure.
 
Posts: 97 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 06, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
Mike,

He is faster than us in the first 330 feet. .050 of it is in 60 ft. Nice enough guy to help us out and try and get it figured out. I believe it to be suspension and convertor. Will see if we can get it sorted.
 
Posts: 97 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 06, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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yes CHamps. that dip in my opinion should be much flatter. the car is not accelerating early in the run. mine did the same thing. granted I have a 5.80 door car but it would sound just like it goes on the stop .5 out. and my 60' was down about 5 to 6 hund. my mph would be right. it was very strange but consistent. I did not notice it at all when I stop raced because the stop covered it up I guess. it was very noticeable bracket racing. everyone said I had fuel problems and I did exactly what you did. I changed everything fuel related and never changed et .01. again, not saying you did not have fuel issues and have corrected them. I am just saying it should not dip that bad after the flash and it is not accelerating early in the run. it is nice to have friends who will let you try something and it is not a hard swap to know for certain.

ep
 
Posts: 757 | Location: dodging double wides... | Registered: November 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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The flash stall sets the tire. The dip is like putting it in high gear (traction control). Once the tire gains speed, the DS rpm starts to catch up to the engine rpm's accelerating to the shift. That dip is beneficial Super Pro bracket racing, for consistency. Especially on local prep.

The dip is essential Super Pro bracket racing on a small tire.

The key is getting the dampers (tire) in harmony.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
I get that mike but it should not dip 3 to 400. my new converter by Greg Slack also has a slight dip after the flash but it is only 100 rpm or so. 3 to 400 down after the hit is et loss in 60' where much et is gained and lost.

also my new converter the wheel speed in relation to rpm is at a steeper ramp than when the car dipped early after the leave. which is 60' et.

he may very well have other issues as stated. I just say if he has access to a converter from a very similar combo I would try it. it is free A-B-A comparison.

ep-also I do not believe he is running a small tire car. or maybe I missed something. which is possible.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: pauley,
 
Posts: 757 | Location: dodging double wides... | Registered: November 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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it is like this. my car was slow in 60. graph looks like converter is tight. is something causing engine to be down on power making converter tight or is converter tightening up making engine look down on power. that is where I was at. I changed everything else with 0 gain anywhere. which only left converter was tightening up to maybe a sprag slipping causing engine to look down in hp. I did not have access to a comparable spare so I had Greg Slack fix me something.

I do not know why you can't run alcohol with an electric pump but that is another discussion for another day.

ep-op says a friend with comparable combo is faster et and 60. the question is why. and he has found some in fuel. but not all.
 
Posts: 757 | Location: dodging double wides... | Registered: November 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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For a dip like this you run the compression clicker on the side of loose damping and the rebound clicker on the tight side.

These Penske's are monotube so keep in mind, the rebound clicker effects the compression clicker and vice versa. Hopefully only slightly.

So once you get into it as example, if your working your way tighter on the rebound clicker, if you add three or four clicks on rebound, take one away on compression.

Hypothetically, If you take a few clicks away on compression, add one rebound.

Same as we did with the Ohlins LMP on the Nova, Cory.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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if you say so. I don't claim to be a suspension expert nor do I fully understand how shocks work. and when I change my wore out qa1 single adjustable I will definitely hit you up for help.

ep-if I remember correctly 1290 is gonna help a brother out in the shock arena
 
Posts: 757 | Location: dodging double wides... | Registered: November 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Trophy
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Mike,

Where should I start at shock setting wise in the back? Never tuned on a dragster before and honestly don't have any idea where to start.

Pauley,
You offered a good amount of info. You may be onto something with the convertor suggestion. It was mentioned on page one also. We will swap it out and give it a shot. The only way we will know is to try it. I do know that his engine graph is flat when you look at it driving out on the convertor. It has no dip.
 
Posts: 97 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 06, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by pauley:
if you say so. I don't claim to be a suspension expert nor do I fully understand how shocks work. and when I change my wore out qa1 single adjustable I will definitely hit you up for help.

ep-if I remember correctly 1290 is gonna help a brother out in the shock arena


The sky is the limit. Sure I'll help ya. I had a guy text from galot I helped last week. Shoot me a text when you get em.

 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CHampshire:
Mike,

Where should I start at shock setting wise in the back? Never tuned on a dragster before and honestly don't have any idea where to start.

Pauley,
You offered a good amount of info. You may be onto something with the convertor suggestion. It was mentioned on page one also. We will swap it out and give it a shot. The only way we will know is to try it. I do know that his engine graph is flat when you look at it driving out on the convertor. It has no dip.
Take a pic of the graph once you make a hit with the converter. Text it to me lets look at the dip. The other guy has more effective gearing shorter tire, so his graph won't be yours.

How many clicks are available on your Penke's compression and rebound? Where are they set now? Do they have a schrader valve? If so do you have a tank (gas) and guage for setting pressure?
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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A Penske gas emulsion is a high pressure system.

If they have a schrader valve, you'll need to set the gas pressure.

Once you start doing this, you'll get a feel for how often they'll need re-set.

Could be every race, just depends how fresh they are.

No schrader valve, and you have a hydraulic Penske, not a higher end gas emulsion damper.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of Rick!
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CHampshire:
Mike,

Where should I start at shock setting wise in the back? Never tuned on a dragster before and honestly don't have any idea where to start.

Pauley,
You offered a good amount of info. You may be onto something with the convertor suggestion. It was mentioned on page one also. We will swap it out and give it a shot. The only way we will know is to try it. I do know that his engine graph is flat when you look at it driving out on the convertor. It has no dip.


You start suspension tuning by taking some video of the launch and going thru it frame by frame. There's a lot more to tuning the launch than turning some shock knobs. Once you got your tire pressure and 2 step rpm adjusted to make a decent DS speed curve then you can maybe twist some knobs and spring nuts. Another thing to do would be to copy your buddy's shock and spring settings and compare where yours are at. The worst that'll happen is that you 60 foot as good as him. Smile
 
Posts: 81 | Location: behind this screen | Registered: July 30, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Rick!:
quote:
Originally posted by CHampshire:
Mike,

Where should I start at shock setting wise in the back? Never tuned on a dragster before and honestly don't have any idea where to start.

Pauley,
You offered a good amount of info. You may be onto something with the convertor suggestion. It was mentioned on page one also. We will swap it out and give it a shot. The only way we will know is to try it. I do know that his engine graph is flat when you look at it driving out on the convertor. It has no dip.


You start suspension tuning by taking some video of the launch and going thru it frame by frame. There's a lot more to tuning the launch than turning some shock knobs. Once you got your tire pressure and 2 step rpm adjusted to make a decent DS speed curve then you can maybe twist some knobs and spring nuts. Another thing to do would be to copy your buddy's shock and spring settings and compare where yours are at. The worst that'll happen is that you 60 foot as good as him. Smile


Rick,

I will try and get some videos of the launch this weekend to watch frame by frame. I would love to 100% copy his shock settings but he has Strange on the back and we have Penske. I doubt they are the same. I maybe able to get close though.

I need to get the Racepak in the car this winter so I can get some real data off of it. I have a perfectly good V300SD sitting on the shelf with shock sensors and everything.....

Mike, I don't know where they are currently set at, I will have to look tonight if I get time.
 
Posts: 97 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 06, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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