This past weekend the heat was brutal & we race in the middle of the day through peak heat times. The track is the Strip, Las Vegas, NV. & is known to be a premier facility.

Anyway, Fri. was a TnT & many/most were having issues getting down the track; including myself. I made one pass at 5:50 pm & it was plain ugly, but a straight line peddle fest & part throttle. I was lined up with a Wanna-Be street racer & they thought they were fast, with some stupid heads-up phrase on the back window. Me being stupid, decided to prove a point they need to take that crap off their back window. They went 10.51 @ 137 mph; pretty sure it was incorrect mph. track was having an issue with trash & windy conditions. I went 9.45 @ 140 mph peddling early & part throttle down track. Sorry for the rant!

Back to the topic. After my run, I came back & hooked up the computer to dial in the launch retard. A friend of the family a young lady came over all frantic. She had spun after watching me spin in front of her. She had talked to others & they all said they spun. Then she went to the tower to complain about the prep. They sent her packing with the coined answer of fix your shyt. To me there's no fixing darn near 140* track temps. I told her I was taking the appropriate steps to adapt to the track & suggested the same for her. Well, that didn't go over well. She's only 21 & drives a 4.60 dragster.

I decided to go over & talk with her dad. Told him the same as I told her. We'll the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. We're not doing that; they need to fix/prep the track.

I didn't get a chance to make another pass that night, due to track BS. We waited in staging for an 1 1/2 hours with no one running. I pulled out of the lanes & it was another half hour wait before the ran what was left in the lanes.

I can't not understand how bull headed they were about not managing there power for the track conditions. Are we that spoiled with track prep? I know I'm not, I race on some pretty poor track prep.

2BKING

^^^^^^^ I’ve seen racers that have launch retard capabilities to include those using analog timing retard ignition but don’t use or know how to use. The track is the same for everyone. Adapt. Your ecu is an excellent tool for these conditions. MSD Grid is excellent also. The new 7AL3 (and others) would also be very good with a delay box controlling.

M & M,

I just don't get it & they have a grid, adapt. I was willing to help with it.

I think a good many DRR members think the same way. It's a bracket race; too many forget that! I'll kill 2-4 tenths to get down the track consistently. Our track generally has very good prep! This weekend was the exception due to the brutal heat. I ran the launch retard all weekend besides that 1st pass on Fri. It was on the edge & it was on the edge. I had the 1.43 60' launch retard in it.

2BKING

I have to use a launch retard or entire timing curve retard here on many runs. Track just can't hold big power unless the weather cooperates, which is less than half the time.

I have a bigger question though, actually kind of an inquiry more than anything. With all the Holley and Fueltec ecu's having built in traction control, and I KNOW racers are using it, when is the NHRA gonna finally realize that traction control is not an automatic awesome record run and win? I see more racers strugging even using traction control than one might think. I also believe it's a safety thing. Set it up right, it can prevent most wheel spin, which can mean the difference between a clean, safe run, or learning about what hitting a wall means. To me, it's seriously stupid they still outlaw it, like for example, the MSD Arc Module. What is their issue? It still has to be programmed and the user still has to make the right tuning changes to get the best benefit from it. While you can program a timing curve in the Grid AFTER a run, everyone knows conditions can change pretty dramatically from run to run.

So what's the deal, you can only run it if you have an enabled ECU, and everybody else can't, or what?

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskaracer:
I have to use a launch retard or entire timing curve retard here on many runs. Track just can't hold big power unless the weather cooperates, which is less than half the time.

I have a bigger question though, actually kind of an inquiry more than anything. With all the Holley and Fueltec ecu's having built in traction control, and I KNOW racers are using it, when is the NHRA gonna finally realize that traction control is not an automatic awesome record run and win? I see more racers strugging even using traction control than one might think. I also believe it's a safety thing. Set it up right, it can prevent most wheel spin, which can mean the difference between a clean, safe run, or learning about what hitting a wall means. To me, it's seriously stupid they still outlaw it, like for example, the MSD Arc Module. What is their issue? It still has to be programmed and the user still has to make the right tuning changes to get the best benefit from it. While you can program a timing curve in the Grid AFTER a run, everyone knows conditions can change pretty dramatically from run to run.

So what's the deal, you can only run it if you have an enabled ECU, and everybody else can't, or what?

My Holley ECU doesn't have traction control, but I can purchase the software. I consider my launch retard as a form of traction control; pull enough power & it's not going to spin. I don't think NHRA can keep up with all this technology! Heck, the high-end street cars have traction control, transbrakes & whatever else. They're allowed to race in the most restrictive Sportsman Class with them.

As for FuelTech, they have delay boxes built into them on the higher end models. I guess that's OK have in Pro & Sportsman Classes where the delay box is supposed to be removed from the race vehicle. We had racers last season in Pro using delay boxes & throttle stops. The track manager turned a blind eye towards doing anything about it but to ignore it.

I decided I would run S/Pro this year without a box. Partially because of the above paragraph. At least I know to set-up my reactions tighter when racing the box vehicles.

Then you go to the big money bracket races & it's the Wild West; about anything goes. Yes, they have some basic written rules; I have never seen them enforced or vehicles checked.

2BKING

I don't have any electronic controls. My solution lately has been to disconnect the secondaries and tie them shut with a wire tie.

Bracket racers are definitely spoiled.

quote:

Originally posted by B KING:
She's only 21 & drives a 4.60 dragster.

Didn't work to get where she is and doesn't appreciate how lucky we all are just simply to have a race car and a place to race.

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:
I don't have any electronic controls. My solution lately has been to disconnect the secondaries and tie them shut with a wire tie.

Do you have any concerns about running it solely on the primaries? Ask because I have done it that way in the past and never gave it a second thought. Then some folks pointed out I might actually get to the point where my power valve could operate, on the top end, and lean it out. Just wondering about your current opinion on that. Take care. Tom Worthington

This past weekend at the D4 Bracket finals it was also brutally hot with 140* track temps. My first pass on Thursday TnT I got really loose and was fish tailing before I clicked it about 1/2 track. Got back to the pit and pulled 6* of timing at .300 and ramped it back in by 2 secs. Never had any problem after that with the track except when they sprayed and prepped the track Sat night without me knowing before RD3 of the Saturdays gamblers and picked up 2 hun in the 60 and broke out by 3 hun against a 4.40 dragster

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:

quote:

Originally posted by B KING:
She's only 21 & drives a 4.60 dragster.

Didn't work to get where she is and doesn't appreciate how lucky we all are just simply to have a race car and a place to race.

She's not a spoiled brat. She started in the Jr. Dragster program & made passes in the family's Chevelle. Graduated High School & College early while working. She saved & bought a nice dragster chassis & saved some more to buy a used engine but fresh. She works hard along with the family.

It was just a shame they were that pig headed about pulling power. They had the grid & a throttle stop to do it with!

2BKING

quote:

Originally posted by Big Steve:
This past weekend at the D4 Bracket finals it was also brutally hot with 140* track temps. My first pass on Thursday TnT I got really loose and was fish tailing before I clicked it about 1/2 track. Got back to the pit and pulled 6* of timing at .300 and ramped it back in by 2 secs. Never had any problem after that with the track except when they sprayed and prepped the track Sat night without me knowing before RD3 of the Saturdays gamblers and picked up 2 hun in the 60 and broke out by 3 hun against a 4.40 dragster

Good to see someone with common sense. Big S knows!

2BKING

Years ago at Dallas Raceway the track temp was 150* and at finish line my car was moving around felt like back tires were low. When I get off the track my Hoosier tires had pulled up small rolls of rubber off the track, a bunch of them and the tires were spinning a little on the big end. Looked like a bunch of black joints all over tires. Those tires were D05 compound and certainly did not work on my car at high track temps (or low track temps to)

Later I went to Mickey Thompson and never had that problem again. But you do have to make changes to make it work on any track conditions and weather that is part of racing and winning.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom396:

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:
I don't have any electronic controls. My solution lately has been to disconnect the secondaries and tie them shut with a wire tie.

Do you have any concerns about running it solely on the primaries? Ask because I have done it that way in the past and never gave it a second thought. Then some folks pointed out I might actually get to the point where my power valve could operate, on the top end, and lean it out. Just wondering about your current opinion on that. Take care. Tom Worthington

I've done it on gas and methanol both carburetors have no power valves. I do leave off of a transbrake and many have said they had a stumble footbraking with the secondaries disconnected especially on methanol. I have a small engine, 355ci, that's pretty basic and it does well on the 4bbl and with the secondaries disconnected. Knocks a few tenths out of it and about 6mph.
Many that race on not so great prep will leave in high gear to soften the leave.

quote:

Originally posted by B KING:

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:

quote:

Originally posted by B KING:
She's only 21 & drives a 4.60 dragster.

Didn't work to get where she is and doesn't appreciate how lucky we all are just simply to have a race car and a place to race.

She's not a spoiled brat. She started in the Jr. Dragster program & made passes in the family's Chevelle. Graduated High School & College early while working. She saved & bought a nice dragster chassis & saved some more to buy a used engine but fresh. She works hard along with the family.

It was just a shame they were that pig headed about pulling power. They had the grid & a throttle stop to do it with!

2BKING

To clarify, I didn't say she is a spoiled brat, or that her family did anything wrong by helping her in racing, but there's no way a 21-yr-old college kid saved enough money on her own to buy a 4.60 dragster, a trailer, a tow vehicle, a place to park all of it, fuel and tires, etc etc

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:
To clarify, I didn't say she is a spoiled brat, or that her family did anything wrong by helping her in racing, but there's no way a 21-yr-old college kid saved enough money on her own to buy a 4.60 dragster, a trailer, a tow vehicle, a place to park all of it, fuel and tires, etc etc

How do you figure that? My daughter had her own apartment at 18, paid her own way through college, owned her first "race car" and two others. She also traveled regularly and was living quite well. I've also known several other young ladies that have done the same, including owning cars that I only wish I could afford. Age and college have nothing to do with what someone can afford or not afford, it's how they choose to earn, save, and spend.

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:
To clarify, I didn't say she is a spoiled brat, or that her family did anything wrong by helping her in racing, but there's no way a 21-yr-old college kid saved enough money on her own to buy a 4.60 dragster, a trailer, a tow vehicle, a place to park all of it, fuel and tires, etc etc

I understand you didn't say or imply she is a spoiled. I put it out for others that she's not a spoiled brat.

She didn't buy a 4.60 dragster out right. She saved & bought a rolling chassis & it sat in the shop for a minimum of 1 year. While she was saving for an engine for it & found a great deal on it.

I know she saved a good amount of cash, but you seem to forget the good old credit cards that too many people use. As for all the other shyt it doesn't matter. We have a young hard-working lady with a great education loving & supporting the sport. The same as her younger sister & brother.

The point of the thread was adapting or not adapting to the track. She was pig headed & I found her dad to be the same. So, I understand where she got it from. I explained to them what I did for power management & highly suggested they do the same. The track management had given them the hard truth, fix your shyt.

"It was just a shame they were that pig headed about pulling power. They had the grid & a throttle stop to do it with!"

2BKING

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:

quote:

Originally posted by Tom396:

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:
I don't have any electronic controls. My solution lately has been to disconnect the secondaries and tie them shut with a wire tie.

Do you have any concerns about running it solely on the primaries? Ask because I have done it that way in the past and never gave it a second thought. Then some folks pointed out I might actually get to the point where my power valve could operate, on the top end, and lean it out. Just wondering about your current opinion on that. Take care. Tom Worthington

I've done it on gas and methanol both carburetors have no power valves. I do leave off of a transbrake and many have said they had a stumble footbraking with the secondaries disconnected especially on methanol. I have a small engine, 355ci, that's pretty basic and it does well on the 4bbl and with the secondaries disconnected. Knocks a few tenths out of it and about 6mph.
Many that race on not so great prep will leave in high gear to soften the leave.

I'm not concerned about any performance issue with disconnecting the secondaries. When I have done it in the past, I did not have any issues. My concern is about any potential damage that I might cause. And again, that wasn't an issue in the past, either.

I don't have a full manual valvebody. In fact, to slow it down, I leave it in Drive and let it shift itself (TH400). Just doing that kills about .25. In really good air, that is not enough. Thanks for your remarks and I hope I have not derailed this thread in any way. Take care. Tom Worthington

I was concerned about being lean when I first did it but never seemed to have any problems. I race with others that do it and they haven't had any problems. My car has a PG and I let it shift by RPM with a solenoid. I'm on methanol and jetted on the rich side.
I guess letting your TH 400 shift on it's own lowers the shift RPM considerably. Nice to kill .25 which I'd like to do to be able to run 7.00 index. How many RPM does it drop the shift?

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:
I was concerned about being lean when I first did it but never seemed to have any problems. I race with others that do it and they haven't had any problems. My car has a PG and I let it shift by RPM with a solenoid. I'm on methanol and jetted on the rich side.
I guess letting your TH 400 shift on it's own lowers the shift RPM considerably. Nice to kill .25 which I'd like to do to be able to run 7.00 index. How many RPM does it drop the shift?

A BUNCH! It is so quick, I can't really tell how low it is. Maybe 4,000 rpm or even less. I shift at 5500 when doing it manually. I have a tell tale on the tach, but only records the highest RPM on the entire pass...and that is just under 5000 at the stripe. Take care. Tom Worthington