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Help needed - no oil to top end
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DRR Trophy
posted
Hi, I am having a oil problem to the top end of my 632 BBC, dart block (10.2). The machine shop put restrictors in. With or without the the oil coming up the pushrods is minimal. With about 3 minutes of run time I get barely any oil in the heads. The amount of oil is not enough to puddle enough to go to the drain backs.

This engine was refreshed and worked fine. It had .842 lifters but the engine had a lifter failure that required the block to be machined for .904 lifters. The cam is reused crane. When priming with the prime tool I see oil running on to all 16 rollers. Crane told me I have the correct rollers lifters for the dart block. With the primer rod I have 70 psi oil pressure but continued priming and rotating the engine produces no significant oil onto the rockers. All pushrod hole and rocker holes are clear.

Anybody ever have this type of issue? Ideas as to what is wrong?

Thanks in advance,

Bob
 
Posts: 37 | Location: Pittsburgh, pa | Registered: October 10, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
Take the lifters out, take a electric pencil and etch a small line from the slot in the lifter to the feed hole.


Jack's Race Shop
apdracing.com
 
Posts: 8 | Location: Pikeville KY | Registered: March 15, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
posted Hide Post
do you how small the restrictor hole is ,i think i had to take mine to .100 or a little larger


honesty is the best policy,insanity is a better deffense
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 1341 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
We have contradicting statements. The title says no oil and then the intro post says no significant amount of oil.

If you have oil but just not as much as you'd expect to see, pour oil over the rockers and fire it to verify.

Or we can make 100 posts discussing drill specifications and priming tool configuration.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Alaskaracer
posted Hide Post
Take out the restrictors. Pretty much all roller lifters are already oil restricted by design...you don't need them.....


Mark Goulette
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster
www.livinthedreamracing.com
"Speed kills but it's better than going slow!"
Authorized Amsoil Retailer
 
Posts: 1439 | Location: Back home in Alaska! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
posted Hide Post
Same block, same size lifters, no restrictors, no oiling issues.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
I may have confused the issue.

The machine shop put restrictors in. When I primed it I had no oil at all seen in the rockers. I removed the restrictors and now I still see no oil while priming.

When I fire the engine and run it with the valve covers on I see a very small amount of oil in the heads when I remove the valve covers after about 3 to 4 minutes of running at 1200 RPM. I have not run it with the valve covers off.

I am concerned that there is not enough oil upstairs but I am no expert. The original engine flooded the top end hence the machinist desire to restrict the oil to the lifters. I removed that restrictor when I got no significant oil to the rockers.

Now with or without the restrictors there is no visible oil to the rockers. Crane said I have the correct lifters for the dart block. I would think there is a lifter mismatch.

I am searching to see if this issue has come up before and what I need to do. The machine shop is saying they did nothing wrong and that I ordered the wrong lifters. Crane said they are the correct lifters.

Bob
 
Posts: 37 | Location: Pittsburgh, pa | Registered: October 10, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Elite
posted Hide Post
Have you confirmed you ordered the right lifters You obviously are getting oil to the pushrods. I say run the engine above 2000RPM up to normal operating temp, shut it down then pull the valve covers.

That said, why did you choose crane lifters?
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
posted Hide Post
after reading new info the groove should help.another choice of lifters should also help


honesty is the best policy,insanity is a better deffense
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 1341 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Big Steve
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Different subject but a friend installed Crane 904 lifters in his Hemi and had one fail after 6 runs, destroyed his camshaft. After doing some investigating apparently Cranes lifter quality has gone in the tank after being bought out. He is switching to Morels, he originally bought based on price and it cost him. I personally have had nothing but good luck with Isky, both needle bearing and EZ roll bushed .904 lifters
 
Posts: 2305 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Spoke with dart and dart did the machine work for the lifter bores. Dart said they machined with .0015 clearance per crane’s specification. They think the .0015 may be a little tight and restricting oil to the oil hole in the lifter. They discussed the groove in the lifter.

I am now calling the machine shop to verify they checked the lifter clearance at .0015 and discuss the feed groove.

Bob

Bob
 
Posts: 37 | Location: Pittsburgh, pa | Registered: October 10, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Alaskaracer
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SX 66:
Spoke with dart and dart did the machine work for the lifter bores. Dart said they machined with .0015 clearance per crane’s specification. They think the .0015 may be a little tight and restricting oil to the oil hole in the lifter. They discussed the groove in the lifter.

I am now calling the machine shop to verify they checked the lifter clearance at .0015 and discuss the feed groove.

Bob

Bob


Lifter bore clearance has no effect on oil feed to the lifter...the oil band position on the lifter does. If the engine was apart you could leave the galley plugs out, put the cam in and a set of lifters and look down the galley to see if the oil band is intersecting the galley. Rotate the cam and check at all points of lift....

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the oil band on your lifters isn't intersecting the galley, and that's the issue. More lifter bore clearance will not fix that, you need different lifters....


Mark Goulette
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster
www.livinthedreamracing.com
"Speed kills but it's better than going slow!"
Authorized Amsoil Retailer
 
Posts: 1439 | Location: Back home in Alaska! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of "The Bender"
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Compare the location of the oil band on one of your old . 842 lifters to one of your new lifters.
I'll bet that will show you what the problem is


272" Spitzer
540 Chevy
The Blower Shop XR1
FTI XPM Series Converter
FTI Level 6 Powerglide
3.69@199
.916 60'

2017 Bradenton Heads Up Madness
Open Outlaw Champ

2018 PDRA T/D #5
2019 PDRA T/D #2

2020 Retired From T/D Competition....

2020 Bradenton NMCA Hemi Shootout Winner

2021 getting back into bracket racing with a Gen3 Hemi powered 87 Cutlass.
 
Posts: 3081 | Location: Yes | Registered: July 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of "The Bender"
posted Hide Post
Also you said when priming it you see oil running on all of the rollers that tells me the oil band is too low letting the oil escape out the bottom of the lifter bore


272" Spitzer
540 Chevy
The Blower Shop XR1
FTI XPM Series Converter
FTI Level 6 Powerglide
3.69@199
.916 60'

2017 Bradenton Heads Up Madness
Open Outlaw Champ

2018 PDRA T/D #5
2019 PDRA T/D #2

2020 Retired From T/D Competition....

2020 Bradenton NMCA Hemi Shootout Winner

2021 getting back into bracket racing with a Gen3 Hemi powered 87 Cutlass.
 
Posts: 3081 | Location: Yes | Registered: July 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
Picture of CURTIS REED
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Coloradoracer:

Lifter bore clearance has no effect on oil feed to the lifter...



Unless it's too large. LOL



____________________________
2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion

2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
 
Posts: 2774 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by "The Bender":
Compare the location of the oil band on one of your old . 842 lifters to one of your new lifters.
I'll bet that will show you what the problem is


This is likely the problem! Also are the lifter bore bushed? I have seen this issue due to the bushing, the oil feed hole is small and may only overlap with the lifter oil feed for s very short period if at all. Go on Dart's web site and when you get to the Big M block, click on Tech Sheet, scroll down and you will see the slot machined on the lifter from the oil feed hole that supplies oil to the pushrods, to the oil band in the lifter body! Some lifter need this, some don't and as I mentioned, if the bores have been sleeved, that can also effect this.
 
Posts: 2087 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SX 66:
Spoke with dart and dart did the machine work for the lifter bores. Dart said they machined with .0015 clearance per crane’s specification. They think the .0015 may be a little tight and restricting oil to the oil hole in the lifter. They discussed the groove in the lifter.

I am now calling the machine shop to verify they checked the lifter clearance at .0015 and discuss the feed groove.

Bob


Bob


I don't think this is the problem! Betting it's the location of the lifter oil band vs the block feed oil location. Note all lifter oil bands are not in the same location and also note that the cam also plays a role here as it locates the lifter in the bore!!!!
 
Posts: 2087 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Alaskaracer
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
Unless it's too large. LOL



Laughing Hard


Mark Goulette
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster
www.livinthedreamracing.com
"Speed kills but it's better than going slow!"
Authorized Amsoil Retailer
 
Posts: 1439 | Location: Back home in Alaska! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Buck2248
posted Hide Post
I may be way off base with this. But if you have shaft rockers, dont the adjusters have to be in a certain spec range or you close off the oiling holes to the rockers??


Mike Buchwald


 
Posts: 538 | Location: Caledonia, Mississippi | Registered: January 09, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Buck2248:
I may be way off base with this. But if you have shaft rockers, dont the adjusters have to be in a certain spec range or you close off the oiling holes to the rockers??


Yes they do, usually 1 to two turns out.
 
Posts: 2087 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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