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Help needed - no oil to top end
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DRR S/Pro
Picture of "The Bender"
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quote:
Originally posted by Buck2248:
I may be way off base with this. But if you have shaft rockers, dont the adjusters have to be in a certain spec range or you close off the oiling holes to the rockers??


Didn't think of that, good thought....


272" Spitzer
540 Chevy
The Blower Shop XR1
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2017 Bradenton Heads Up Madness
Open Outlaw Champ

2018 PDRA T/D #5
2019 PDRA T/D #2

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2020 Bradenton NMCA Hemi Shootout Winner

2021 getting back into bracket racing with a Gen3 Hemi powered 87 Cutlass.
 
Posts: 3100 | Location: Yes | Registered: July 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Buck2248
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I was just thinking maybe the lifters are different at the cup height and they used same pushrods and had to move the adjusters father in or out and blocked the oil channel in the adjuster


Mike Buchwald


 
Posts: 538 | Location: Caledonia, Mississippi | Registered: January 09, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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Ah, yearning for the old days. Get parts from the junkyard or the Chevy parts counter and everything worked because it was under one roof. Not any more, by a long shot. Everybody puts their spin on their parts and almost nothing works without some sort of modification. As the OP is finding out.


Illegitimi non carborundum
 
Posts: 2336 | Location: OKC, OK | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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quote:
Originally posted by Canted Valve:
Ah, yearning for the old days. Get parts from the junkyard or the Chevy parts counter and everything worked because it was under one roof. Not any more, by a long shot. Everybody puts their spin on their parts and almost nothing works without some sort of modification. As the OP is finding out.


Yep, GM spends a gazillion dollars engineering their parts and we throw it all away and buy aftermarket race parts. Then get confused, or pissed, when they don't just bolt together.
I understand the OP paid a professional engine builder for his engine. But I don't understand why it isn't back at the builder's shop....
My guess is he missed the oil groove alignment with the oil passage....just a little labor to correct right now, but big money/labor to re-do the engine when the rockers start seizing, pushrod ends start galling, valve springs take a crap, etc etc...
BUT <----- NOTE THE BUT....The amount of oil you're seeing may be normal for a race engine...you may be used to the topend being "flooded" [as you described it)......If I was you I would ask the engine builder would take the engine back to check it, or at the very least send him photos of the amount of oil getting to the valvetrain....a possibly messing test, but very telling, would be to start it with a valve cover off and see whats actually happening during running time


.
Dave



F J B

 
Posts: 4473 | Location: Earth | Registered: February 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Canted Valve:
Ah, yearning for the old days. Get parts from the junkyard or the Chevy parts counter and everything worked because it was under one roof. Not any more, by a long shot. Everybody puts their spin on their parts and almost nothing works without some sort of modification. As the OP is finding out.


The definition of a race part = it don't fit!
 
Posts: 2160 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Big Steve
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quote:
Originally posted by TOP38:
quote:
Originally posted by Canted Valve:
Ah, yearning for the old days. Get parts from the junkyard or the Chevy parts counter and everything worked because it was under one roof. Not any more, by a long shot. Everybody puts their spin on their parts and almost nothing works without some sort of modification. As the OP is finding out.


The definition of a race part = it don't fit!


Ain't that the truth. I built my blower motor brand new from the ground up with nothing but the best parts and nothing fit, and it's a BBC. I had to massage just about everything to fit. You would think after all these years this stuff would just bolt together lol. I Made a few mistakes along the way and tore some stuff up but the final result has been pretty good.
 
Posts: 2433 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I have called crane twice and they insist the lifters are correct. The builder picked crane lifters due to the original lifters being crane .842.

The builder did a short block rebuild and I put the heads on. We thought since the original lifters where crane we would stick with crane. The cup height between the .842 and 904 lifter was .020 different so push rods should have worked.

I will pull intake and give the oil hole fit up to the oil galley a better look. The lifters don’t have a defined oil ring. Crane 13575 lifter.

Bob
 
Posts: 37 | Location: Pittsburgh, pa | Registered: October 10, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR S/Pro
Picture of Big Steve
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quote:
Originally posted by SX 66:
I have called crane twice and they insist the lifters are correct. The builder picked crane lifters due to the original lifters being crane .842.

The builder did a short block rebuild and I put the heads on. We thought since the original lifters where crane we would stick with crane. The cup height between the .842 and 904 lifter was .020 different so push rods should have worked.

I will pull intake and give the oil hole fit up to the oil galley a better look. The lifters don’t have a defined oil ring. Crane 13575 lifter.

Bob


Maybe you can find someone local that has a isky or Morel .904 lifter you can borrow and stick in there while you have the manifold off then use your drill primer to see if there is any difference in oil to the rocker. May be worth a try, just a thought
 
Posts: 2433 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TD3550
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Is that 13575 a .300 tall lifter? 842 vs a 904.
Different size wheel. 904 will sit higher. I would measure side by side of the oiler. Jmo....

Dart states a 0.300 on a 10.2. Just a thought.
 
Posts: 1409 | Location: Under a Truck | Registered: August 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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quote:
Maybe you can find someone local that has a isky or Morel .904 lifter you can borrow and stick in there while you have the manifold off then use your drill primer to see if there is any difference in oil to the rocker. May be worth a try, just a thought


Just be sure to use a primer that has the distributor type body on it. No oil will get to the lifter oil passage if you don't
Also if you have your old lifters, compare the oiling cut-outs between the two....
One other thing, did you happen to order a small base circle cam for some reason?


.
Dave



F J B

 
Posts: 4473 | Location: Earth | Registered: February 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TD3550
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Dave, funny you mentioned the base circle deal. For the life of me i can't find that read i had where as Crower stated a wrong base circle cam deal and an oiling issue to the top half. I will keep looking.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TD3550,
 
Posts: 1409 | Location: Under a Truck | Registered: August 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Same cam as before. .842 lifter and .904 measure 1.885. Oil feed hole in same place.

The only path for oil to get to the feed hole is by squeezing up the block to lifter clearance since there us no connection between the “oil ring” and the feed hole. Alignment down the lifter oil channel places the oil ring pretty much in the center of the channel. A little low but not low enough to uncover the feed hole. If the lifter would go about .1 deeper in the block the feed hole would be uncovered.

Looks like another call to crane. Dart said to cut a slot to the “oil ring” per third tech tip on their blocks.

More on Monday.

Bob
 
Posts: 37 | Location: Pittsburgh, pa | Registered: October 10, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I had a similar issue with mine after a rebuild. But it turn out I didn't have my dist. spaced correctly and wasn't feeding oil down the galley correctly. But I'm a novice engine builder,tinkerer.


Jason Compton
 
Posts: 34 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: January 13, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I would bet your lifter bore clearance is to tight. Crower lifters are about .001 smaller than the Morel and Crane bodies. You could grove them but I would be more worried about seizing the lifters in the bores.


Duane Allen
 
Posts: 29 | Location: Sandston VA | Registered: December 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
Picture of Alaskaracer
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Based on what you just said you need different lifters!


Mark Goulette
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster
www.livinthedreamracing.com
"Speed kills but it's better than going slow!"
Authorized Amsoil Retailer
 
Posts: 1474 | Location: Back home in Alaska! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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http://dartheads.com/wp-conten...ation-Packet-B22.pdf

Read about the lifters on bottom page
 
Posts: 337 | Location: up on the wheel | Registered: March 06, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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I seem to think my paperwork with my Crower lifters says the oil feed hole shouldn’t drop into the oil valley or you will have excessive oil in the top end. I would have to dig out the paper again to be sure.
 
Posts: 2591 | Location: at the track | Registered: May 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I will measure actual bore clearance today. Crane recommends .0015 and a lifter and the spec was sent to dart when they did the machining. Liters all came in at .9033 to ,9037. The .9037 was sent to dart.

Waiting on a call back from dart to discuss the groove in their tech note. Basically asking why it is in the notes and whose lifter prompted that note.

Bob
 
Posts: 37 | Location: Pittsburgh, pa | Registered: October 10, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Bore clearance was right at .0015 or a little bigger. Tightest one measure .9053.

I ended up modifying the lifter by cutting a small oil channel to the “oil ring”. Works like it should now.

Bob
 
Posts: 37 | Location: Pittsburgh, pa | Registered: October 10, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of deadon1578
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From what I have read, no one has mentioned the galley plugs behind the false plugs in the front of the block. That is where you restrict the oil, not the rear. I have seen these left out and the oil will feed the lifters but no pressure to reach rockers, something to verify, good luck!
 
Posts: 47 | Location: md | Registered: July 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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