DragRaceResults.Com    Bracket Talk    Bracket Talk Forum  Hop To Forum Categories  Tech Talk - by Abruzzi    LS engines, who is bracket racing an LS
Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
LS engines, who is bracket racing an LS
 Login/Join
 
DRR Sportsman
Picture of rs72z
posted Hide Post
Larry, not sure if you get on y.b. or not but they have a section for ls stuff. Lots of info there as well.
I have completed going ls using a 6.0 iron block, but already having all the sbc parts i just haven't been able to pull the trigger.
 
Posts: 206 | Location: texas | Registered: November 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
I think the oiling issues are over-stated...

The oil pumps tend to aerate the oil simply due to their design above 8,000 RPM. Without a serious head package or a small CID engine you'd never want to go that high in a bracket combination.

Cam bearing issues were likely a problem arising in the early years as I believe one of the major manufactures had a problem with fitment tolerances on cam bearings.

Aluminum block is okay as long as you use Darton sleeves or something similar, the sleeves are very thin in a stock application.Its a six bolt main cross bolted block with head bolt that compresses the entire cylinder/head stack.

The only weak link in the engine from the factory is the rocker arms and possibly rod bolts.

In 20 years it will be the new SBC.
 
Posts: 36 | Location: Bradenton | Registered: August 21, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of 1leg
posted Hide Post
I'm currently building my first LS engine. The plan is to bore a 5.3l iron block out to LS1 3.898" bore. Stock crank, Stock gen 4 rods. Forged piston. ARP rod bolt, main and head studs. Hyd-roller cam with ported stock 5.3 heads with larger valves. Hoping to make around 500hp and keep the RPM below 6600-6800. It will have a carb and the MSD box. Should be on a dyno in a couple of months.


Meziere Tech.
Make sure your water pump is on whenever you check your coolant level.
 
Posts: 244 | Location: Escondido | Registered: July 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of FootbrakeJim
posted Hide Post
I have to say I am really surprised how very few people I have seen or know that bracket race LS engines. I can certainly understand why not in really fast classes such as S/C, S/P, TD, TS, etc. (Where cubic inches are king), but 10+ years ago, I was figuring the slower footbrake classes would be full of them within a decade.
Just reading this thread, it got me thinking that there are so few younger bracket racers, (which is the age group that I would imagine has truly embraced the LS engine). So maybe it is just a matter of the "established" racers (not gonna say "older" Big Grin), staying with what they already know and trust?
Speaking strictly for myself, I will NEVER spend money building a racing engine that relies on a freaking rubber O-Ring to seal the oil pump to the pickup. Roll Eyes Having spent way too much time on one of the most unpleasant automotive tasks in my life, (replacing one of those stupid o-rings on a 4x4 truck, which essentially required dropping the entire front suspension, and needing an alignment afterward) Mad, because some idiotic young gun engineer decided to employ a feature that automotive engineers knew better than to use more than 50 years ago... NOPE. NEVER. YB has a lot of posts regarding oil pressure problems due to this shytty design feature.
The consequences of that o-ring failure on my 6.0 truck engine at 3,000 RPM were not terribly severe, (other than it being a real PITA to replace), but I don't think I would want to find out what damage a badly aerated, low-pressure oil supply might do to a full-tilt race engine at 7800 RPM. Just my $.02


Dan "Jim" Moore
Much too young to feel this damn old!!
 
Posts: 1045 | Location: Farmersville, TX  | Registered: December 05, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
First off, how many pickups have you seen break off on some of these legacy designs? How many oil pump shafts have been broken? How many distributor gears with worn/broken teeth or sheered roll pins?

The LS engine has none of the design deficiencies listed above.

As per the o-ring, most (all) of the issues that occur during a build (and initial startup) are the direct result of improper installation by the person assembling the engine.

The other issues can be corrected by using two bolt pickup tube support such as the ones found here.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/icb-551910

No engine is bullet proof, the LS engine is no more or less bullet proof than the BBC or SBC when built properly.
 
Posts: 36 | Location: Bradenton | Registered: August 21, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
I'm messing with one for the first time in a street car (jeep actually). Sounded like it spun a rod so I tore it down in frame. Couldn't find a problem but it was wore out so I picked up a slightly less used replacement (lots of options to choose from there!). I suspect it was failing to oil the rockers for some reason and collapsing a few lifters but couldn't find any evidence. Fingers crossed it's up and running again this weekend.

Overall it's an interesting platform. Most annoying thing I see so far is that you have to pull heads to inspect lifters. Also, the fasteners are all so small it's hard to believe they can handle any power but I guess they do.

Mine is carbd with a 6ls and stock coil near plug. I like the box and would never see any reason to put a distributor in one of these. The only slight annoyance I have is that it takes about a minute to upload a change. I spent an hour trying to dial in my tip in timing curve because it takes so long to adjust anything.
 
Posts: 931 | Location: my own little world | Registered: July 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
I believe there's a bit of misinformation in here..

Aluminum blocks are great up to 1100HP. they do not wear any differently than an iron blocks. I've ran both in many car with a lot of street miles, and a ton of passes. I've ran 5.3, 6.0, 6.2 and 7.0 motors, all stock bottom end. I have spun every SBE motor (With stock Rod bolts) over 7500 regularly. its all about cam and lifter choice. oiling issues get blown out of proportion - if you're not running a solid roller and spinning it 8000+ you wont have an issue. The LS Platform is a phenomenal platform when using stock block and head castings. for bracket motors and street motors they are hard to beat. $600 for a cam kit from Lil John Motorsports, $130 for a rocker trunion kit, and $250 for a Holley single plane. throw it in a 6.0 and go 6.50s at 3000lbs. I did it, put 300 laps on it, sprayed the crap out of it, used it as a fair weather daily driver, and never had an issue. ALSO - they're extremely maintenance free. change the oil and put fuel in it. I never pulled the valve covers on it.
 
Posts: 1 | Location: CulleokaTN | Registered: May 31, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
Thanks for all comments. As posted above, I am also surprised at the lack of solid experience in ref to an LS engine in bracket race trim.

I am moving forward with the plan of an LS build so maybe we can all learn from the experience. The preliminary list is as follows;

*LS 3 aluminum block. I will buy a new block from a GM performance source for about $1550.00
*a 4" stroke and 4.065 bores will make it 418 CI
*LS 3 CNC heads with hollow stem intake valve and sodium filled exhaust valve. These are new GM heads complete assemblies for about $690.00 each. [The springs and retainers are not usable for this build]
*no girly cam with this deal, it will have a mechanical roller
*Edelbrock super victor with 4500 carb flange
*Daytona Sensors company ignition control which triggers off the OE crank sensor and OE cam sensor. It fires 8 coils.

The engine package will be light and I "think" powerful with a relatively basic buildup, mostly shelf parts.


Larry Woodfin



 
Posts: 1838 | Location: Kilgore TX | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
And you heard it here first! In keeping with my theme of unique builds, this LS engine will power an altered wheelbase, 1965 El Camino. The quarter panels will be modified and the rear axle moved forward about 4 inches.


Larry Woodfin



 
Posts: 1838 | Location: Kilgore TX | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
65 Camino


Larry Woodfin





 
Posts: 1838 | Location: Kilgore TX | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Larry Woodfin:
Thanks for all comments. As posted above, I am also surprised at the lack of solid experience in ref to an LS engine in bracket race trim.

I am moving forward with the plan of an LS build so maybe we can all learn from the experience. The preliminary list is as follows;

*LS 3 aluminum block. I will buy a new block from a GM performance source for about $1550.00
*a 4" stroke and 4.065 bores will make it 418 CI
*LS 3 CNC heads with hollow stem intake valve and sodium filled exhaust valve. These are new GM heads complete assemblies for about $690.00 each. [The springs and retainers are not usable for this build]
*no girly cam with this deal, it will have a mechanical roller
*Edelbrock super victor with 4500 carb flange
*Daytona Sensors company ignition control which triggers off the OE crank sensor and OE cam sensor. It fires 8 coils.

The engine package will be light and I "think" powerful with a relatively basic buildup, mostly shelf parts.


Aluminum block is nice for weight and cool factor but these are cast in liners so your not going to have much room for an overbore.

Max recommended overbore on a LS2 block is .005 over (most machine shops will tell you .010-.020), don't have as much experience with the LS3 blocks though.

Id prefer the MSD LS control box for practically the same price with arguably much better options (as long as your toting a laptop or programmer).

I would suggest you do don't buy aftermarket coils without doing a good bit of research. The stock truck coils are powering cars well over 1,000+ HP. There is a fair amount of people out there that have better luck with them than the MSD units.

LS engines typically don't need a high volume or high pressure oil pump, a high volume unit alone will push some engines over 100 PSI (or 120 PSI with LSX block) even when on lightweight oil.
 
Posts: 36 | Location: Bradenton | Registered: August 21, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
Dustin Lee runs an LS in T/D. Has been 6.80's NA. He also has one in his bracket dragster as well as his front engine car. He would be one guy in the know on them. Also SDPC is building LS platform stuff these days for the bracket guys.There is also distributor kits available from Roush and likely others to convert one to a dist set up if you wanted.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
Marcus Tullius Cicero
 
Posts: 994 | Location: Las Vegas, NV | Registered: April 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Al Alguire:
Dustin Lee runs an LS in T/D. Has been 6.80's NA. He also has one in his bracket dragster as well as his front engine car. He would be one guy in the know on them. Also SDPC is building LS platform stuff these days for the bracket guys.There is also distributor kits available from Roush and likely others to convert one to a dist set up if you wanted.


That's a stout N/A small block any way you look at it.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6419 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Busted Knuckles
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Al Alguire:
Also SDPC is building LS platform stuff these days for the bracket guys.


Saw it a couple of weeks ago. LS3 block and heads, stroked to 426ci single plane intake and hydraulic rollers, 700hp.


Organized people are just too lazy to look for their $h!t.
 
Posts: 488 | Location: Texas USA | Registered: November 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
How about a couple thousand passes on a aluminum 6.0 junkyard special out of a trailblazer SS?
Took heads off, milled them down .030, ARP head bolts, changed springs, and a Texas speed “tsunami” cam. Oh, did put ARP rod bolts in it..but still kept the factory bearings. Victor carb’ed intake, QF850 on pump gas, MSD box driving factory coil packs.
Belonged to my buddy Rodney Taylor, in a white ‘67 Camaro full body car with a 6 point bar, 12 bolt/cal trace/4.88s, 8” converter and a glide. Best ET with his skinny son Dalton driving was 6.79 in good air. Most of the time it ran 6.80s-6.90s, I drove it one time year before last in electronics at Battlefield and runnered up, ran 6.90s in the heat with my fat butt. They double-entered it at just about every race they could, ran a bunch of King of the Coast stuff at Gulfport. It won its share of races..we named the car “white slip” because it would get you a white time slip more often than not.
He sold the car rolling a month or so ago. Still has the engine, it is for sale matter of fact.
 
Posts: 97 | Location: South MS | Registered: September 07, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Al Alguire:
Dustin Lee runs an LS in T/D. Has been 6.80's NA. He also has one in his bracket dragster as well as his front engine car. He would be one guy in the know on them. Also SDPC is building LS platform stuff these days for the bracket guys.There is also distributor kits available from Roush and likely others to convert one to a dist set up if you wanted.


Met Dustin at The March Meet this year. Very knowledgeable guy about the LS platform
 
Posts: 33 | Location: Xenia | Registered: June 10, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
Nobody in this area-that I know of-uses the LS for a bracket engine. Why when a SBC built with the same dollars runs circles around it and parts are literally laying around everwhere for a quick easy fix at the track?

See a lot of guys doing LS swaps in Ford's. But then complain about the cost of doing it. New K-member, custom headers, transmission mounting/crossmember, etc...IMO far better off sticking with a SBF in a Ford car, unless you have the outlay and motivation to go with a big 385 series.

See plenty of LS engine repair jobs going through the dealer next door to us at work. Cam bearings are still a problem as are oiling issues. Or at least that's what I'm told.
 
Posts: 540 | Location: central Ar | Registered: June 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
My buddy Cory Lytle uses one in his 67 Chevelle. The stock 6.0 with a cam change, new rod bolts and a Wes May Alky carb went 6.60's. Now it has a 418 LS with ported factory heads and it went 6.30's.
 
Posts: 1108 | Location: OklahomaCity,OK | Registered: December 01, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
posted Hide Post
I'm curious about where the ls shines. It seems that for fairly stock builds, it's pretty hard to beat an ls for strength and cost. But once you get into rotating assembly and heads, and maybe even block, does it just make sense to go with a dart block and start from there?


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6419 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
Bucky, "{what is the advantage of the LS series}"

you posted the 64 dollar question [at least for me] To this point my research shows to build a healthy LS will cost about the same as building a first design small block. Yet the money is spent differently.

I am still sorting out the options and the below specs will be my first LS build

*a new GM LS3 aluminum block. The block is 100 or so pounds lighter than an iron block and accepts a 4" stroke crank, drop in

*new GM LS3 CNC heads. The heads and valves can be raced but springs and retainers must be changed

*mechanical roller and adjustable valve train. All valve train is custom but that is no different than any buildup.

*Super Victor intake

Beyond these basics, I am still considering options for ignition and fuel system and etc. I am just finishing another build with Ron's injection and primer plus system. I really like that system and most likely will do so with the LS


Larry Woodfin



 
Posts: 1838 | Location: Kilgore TX | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5 6  
 

DragRaceResults.Com    Bracket Talk    Bracket Talk Forum  Hop To Forum Categories  Tech Talk - by Abruzzi    LS engines, who is bracket racing an LS

© DragRaceResults.com 2024