We've recently been having an issue with the band in our powerglide loosening up in our dragster. We did make a change from a naturally aspirated 632 (1250hp) to a blown motor that's making around 1,550. Prior, we didn't need to adjust the band on the transmission often. Now it's loosening up every 10 runs or so. How much life should we expect out of the band? Might there be some other issue that's causing this that was exacerbated by the power increase? Currently using a FTI extreme band. Thanks for any help

quote:

Originally posted by BB4506:
We've recently been having an issue with the band in our powerglide loosening up in our dragster. We did make a change from a naturally aspirated 632 (1250hp) to a blown motor that's making around 1,550. Prior, we didn't need to adjust the band on the transmission often. Now it's loosening up every 10 runs or so. How much life should we expect out of the band? Might there be some other issue that's causing this that was exacerbated by the power increase? Currently using a FTI extreme band. Thanks for any help

Pressure at the servo?

You won't see much life at all from the band, adjusting it every ten laps. It's not normal.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:

quote:

Originally posted by BB4506:
We've recently been having an issue with the band in our powerglide loosening up in our dragster. We did make a change from a naturally aspirated 632 (1250hp) to a blown motor that's making around 1,550. Prior, we didn't need to adjust the band on the transmission often. Now it's loosening up every 10 runs or so. How much life should we expect out of the band? Might there be some other issue that's causing this that was exacerbated by the power increase? Currently using a FTI extreme band. Thanks for any help

Pressure at the servo?

You won't see much life at all from the band, adjusting it every ten laps. It's not normal.

Pressure is at 260

quote:

Originally posted by BB4506:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:

quote:

Originally posted by BB4506:
We've recently been having an issue with the band in our powerglide loosening up in our dragster. We did make a change from a naturally aspirated 632 (1250hp) to a blown motor that's making around 1,550. Prior, we didn't need to adjust the band on the transmission often. Now it's loosening up every 10 runs or so. How much life should we expect out of the band? Might there be some other issue that's causing this that was exacerbated by the power increase? Currently using a FTI extreme band. Thanks for any help

Pressure at the servo?

You won't see much life at all from the band, adjusting it every ten laps. It's not normal.

Pressure is at 260

260 at what rpm?

Are you monitoring line pressure in your data?

How does the shift look on the graphs?

Have you looked at the band you've been adjusting? is it wearing the center?

Pressure might be reapplying band in high at 260 plus (need a better spring for this pressure). I'd say the pressure is a little high for 1500hp.

For starters I'd put a Sonnax guided pin servo kit in it, use the shims per instructions for the included spring for 260 psi plus.

Chamfer the case pin hole as per instructions show.

When you say you didn't have to adjust the band often before, how many laps would you say is often?

How many laps total has the transmission got on it?

EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS I HAVE BAND ISSUE'S TOO.....WHAT I SEE IS THE BONDING GLUE DOESN'T HOLD THE LINING IN PLACE....I'LL HAVE GLIDES GO

500 RUNS...BAND IS BRAND NEW....THEN 100 RUNS..HALF THE LINING IS GONE & RIPPED OUT...SAME PARTS....DUAL RING TEFLON SERVO PISTON & THE

GREEN BTE/SONNAX SPRING...I USE THE TURN OF THE DRUM METHOD TO SET THE BAND...WORKED FOR YEARS...ALSO, THE HIGH CARBON BANDS WEAR TWICE

AS FAST AS THE KEVLAR & RED BANDS...I NEVER USE THE CARBON BANDS....

The band in a power glide is self energizing. The more power you put to it the harder it holds therefore trying to make the band stretch. Once you break the thresh hold of .980-.970 60 fts the life of all parts start to diminish including the band.There has been many discussions about pressure in high gear due to pin bias effect. 260 lb pressure is not to much. We have run the pin supported servo as well and not fixed band failures. While it is a great theory and it has to help stabilize the servo one would think, I believe this is unnecessary. With a new band i will see the band stretch each run for about the first 6 runs. Typically 1/4 turn if using a quality torque wrench. Once the band settles in it will quit stretching. If you continue to see the band moving you have a problem.This is assuming you are going better than .980 to the 60 ft. We have 2200 lb cars go .940 to the 60 and get 50 runs on that band. I have said before that when you go that fast the band and the input shaft become a consumable part,just like a tire ,or a connecting rod.

there are many other things to consider as well with band failure such as fluid type,drum surface finish,flex in the mid plate area or worn engine limiter brackets etc. I have done some face book videos on this very matter!!

Greg

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
For starters I'd put a Sonnax guided pin servo kit in it, use the shims per instructions for the included spring for 260 psi plus.

Chamfer the case pin hole as per instructions show.

When you say you didn't have to adjust the band often before, how many laps would you say is often?

How many laps total has the transmission got on it?

Thanks for the help on this. We're running the sonnax smart-tech 28821-10k. The tranny and band have 65 passes since fresh earlier this year (3 weekends of racing at double tech events).

Prior, we didn't really have to adjust the band other than checking it after the first weekend out and would change when we freshened the transmission.

quote:

Originally posted by BB4506:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
For starters I'd put a Sonnax guided pin servo kit in it, use the shims per instructions for the included spring for 260 psi plus.

Chamfer the case pin hole as per instructions show.

When you say you didn't have to adjust the band often before, how many laps would you say is often?

How many laps total has the transmission got on it?

Thanks for the help on this. We're running the sonnax smart-tech 28821-10k. The tranny and band have 65 passes since fresh earlier this year (3 weekends of racing at double tech events).

Prior, we didn't really have to adjust the band other than checking it after the first weekend out and would change when we freshened the transmission.

Ok, so you're running a ratio style servo. Those work well. Greg made an interesting point and I've seen it myself, not saying this is what is happening but, there's a possibility it could be the band needs to settle with the new power. I've seen this too, as Greg mentioned, and thought I had a problem.

How much are you having tighten the band screw after counting turns to 72 inch pounds, to bring it back into adjustment?

If it backed up and that's what alerted you to adjust the band, then chances are you may not have counted the turns to 72 inch pounds.

If you wanna give this band a chance before ripping it out and starting over, count the turns to 72 inch pds, it'll give you an idea how much of the band is being used up.

If it were me I'd count the turns every pass. In the event the band settles in, with a bit of luck eventually you'll check the turns a couple two three times and find it hasn't gained any turns to 72.

Just curious. What fluid now since the increase?
Not knocking any other companies fluid in here.
Some here run the Allison 295 fluid with great results. Ask Big Steve.. The fluid laughs at the heat.I was at $24.30 a gallon. I know it went up to about 38-42. Fluid stays clean i have to admit.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TD3550,

quote:

Originally posted by TD3550:
Just curious. What fluid now since the increase?
Not knocking any other companies fluid in here.
Some here run the Allison 295 fluid with great results. Ask Big Steve.. The fluid laughs at the heat.

That's good stuff. We just bought 8 five gallon pales, we got a DEAL!!

With any luck the op counts the turns on the band screw a couple passes, and it doesn't gain any turns from 72.

1500 it won't need a big shaft. We'd get exactly 18 runs out of a 1" ringless 2500 3000hp @ 3200 lbs F3R ProCharger Big Chief 632 methanol.

A lot of pg bands available are just garbage. Many of these wide bands and some narrow bands were made with a poor core design from the start which was then masked with the addition of welded supports etc but they still bend and stretch and eventually fail or get all hung up in the case.
I have no pics to share but look at the anchors and compare them to even a stock band and you will see the difference in many cases.
The Sonnax servo systems address all of the problems with the servo you can fix. The geometry of the stock parts are terrible so it's amazing how well these work considering.


Hutch

quote:

Originally posted by Hutch:
A lot of pg bands available are just garbage. Many of these wide bands and some narrow bands were made with a poor core design from the start which was then masked with the addition of welded supports etc but they still bend and stretch and eventually fail or get all hung up in the case.
I have no pics to share but look at the anchors and compare them to even a stock band and you will see the difference in many cases.
The Sonnax servo systems address all of the problems with the servo you can fix. The geometry of the stock parts are terrible so it's amazing how well these work considering.


Hutch

They're excellent, thanks for turning us on to them. Even my ride, it's a better cleaner, quicker shift guided pin with spring kit. Stock band low line pressure.

quote:

Originally posted by TD3550:
Just curious. What fluid now since the increase?
Not knocking any other companies fluid in here.
Some here run the Allison 295 fluid with great results. Ask Big Steve.. The fluid laughs at the heat.I was at $24.30 a gallon. I know it went up to about 38-42. Fluid stays clean i have to admit.

To give you an example how well the Allison fluid is working for me, I have 54 runs on my trans this year with the same fluid I started the season with. Pan has yet to be taken off other than a pressure adjustment after my first test session of the season. Other improvements were upgrading to the Sonnax 1.125 input shaft kit and going back to a Reid pump. Last season I could not go 2 races without taking the trans apart.

Early in the season I built a 100% ground up brand new spare trans and it has never been out of the trailer or installed in the car

With a turbo heat is the challenge. Procharger - supercharger hard parts become the problem input shafts, output shafts, stator tubes, band screws etc etc etc.

We used one of the first 1.125 input shafts in existence around 2008 Big chief 632 F3R ProCharger 3150 lb Outlaw radial tire car with the main man tuner from Proline
doing the tuning 2500-3000hp.

We'd ring of or twist a 1" input every 18 laps, so when we went 35 spline 1.125 input, it was smooth sailing for 125 laps without the pan off spragless converter.

The stator tube durability issues began when a heavy mechanical diode active stator was put in to play with the 1.125 input, the bigger input requires stator tube thickness reduced. The 1.125 Input is virtually unbreakable durability spragless converter, but I know if you hang a mechanical diode (active stator) on the stator tube, you're asking for problems.

The TranSynd oil is fast.

I have about 6 gal of Transynd. I am considering draining the Lucas and using Transynd. If I just drain it, will it mix OK with my current Synthetic fluid? IIRC a thread a couple years ago saying the Transynd was very difficult to see on the dipstick so they would add a quart of synthetic race fluid.

quote:

Originally posted by TonyB6255:
I have about 6 gal of Transynd. I am considering draining the Lucas and using Transynd. If I just drain it, will it mix OK with my current Synthetic fluid? IIRC a thread a couple years ago saying the Transynd was very difficult to see on the dipstick so they would add a quart of synthetic race fluid.

TranSyn is red, yes drain the oil best you can, add TranSyn.

You're thinking of hydraulic oil is hard to see.

Like I said TranSyn is red,... easy to see.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:

TranSyn is red, yes drain the oil best you can, add TranSyn.

You're thinking of hydraulic oil is hard to see.

Like I said TranSyn is red,... easy to see.

Got it. Any idea if it affects converter stall?

quote:

Originally posted by TonyB6255:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:

TranSyn is red, yes drain the oil best you can, add TranSyn.

You're thinking of hydraulic oil is hard to see.

Like I said TranSyn is red,... easy to see.

Got it. Any idea if it affects converter stall?

If you were going from heavy hydraulic oil to TranSynd it would, but going from redline it won't affect stall, but to be assured, research the weight of TranSynd oil, in comparison to the weight oil you run now.