quote:

He explained this was the reason the small spring that holds the bendix away from the flywheel was always stretched out of round and usually not functioning....

I do Not use Ford type solenoid and have spring stretched out of round after 2 seasons. For me it’s a normal easy replacement item.

The spring problem is simply from it being a poor design and the drive does not retract fast enough as engine starts
I've had it happen a number of times and have tried both the std springs and the wave type spring

If you start your engine above an idle, that makes it worse....with your foot on the gas pedal a little.

My engine will start at an idle most of the time, but if my foot touches the gas pedal a few times while sitting in the lanes waiting to pull out it gets fuel shot in the engine and tends to want some pedal to allow more air in and the engine revs as it starts......That can kill those springs...

I make the ends as smooth as possible and lube the heck out of them so the spring ends are less likely to drag and that helps....

I have 2 starters and lots of springs and can and have swapped starters between rounds......than fix the bad one later on.....

Haven't had it happen for quite a while though and I do have a remote solinoid....

I never bought the starter becomes a motor story.....The drive does not retract cleanly or fast enough and the engine force spins that drive....and wrecks the spring and can kill the drive

That's my opinion......

Franks starters worked better because the nose was supported......

I use HOP starters and have had very good luck with them.

^^^^^^^^^ Good explanation of possible cause for what I have been experiencing past 15 yrs.

Late last year I switched from ECAE starters to HOP starter. The HOP definitely cranks faster and will be interested to see the results. I have a package of springs as well.

Does anyone have a source part # for these springs that is better priced than what is offered from the suppliers?

If you buy HOP starters, call Mark and he’ll send you some springs.

You cannot find or deal with a better/greater person/business . Mark is the best !

Mark has sold me two of his 16V alternators and they work flawlessly. Has also answered a ton of my own questions and then even fixed the one alternator after I messed it up reasonably quick. If we ever run through our old starters and need new ones, he will be our first call no doubt!

quote:

Originally posted by SCDIV1:
If you buy HOP starters, call Mark and he’ll send you some springs.

You cannot find or deal with a better/greater person/business . Mark is the best !

I did get one of his starters... it spins faster then my Meziere did

HOP Big Dawg starters and ECAE 16v alternators in both my cars

^^^^^ best combo out there.

quote:

Originally posted by TOP38:
At the starter, hook a voltage meter to the positive lead, crank the motor with the ignition off, read the voltage after it stabilizes, you want 9.5v or more in a 12v system. Less than 9, you have issues in the wiring assuming your battery and starter are good! Starters can sound OK but draw way more current that they should and compound this issue so have your starters checked if you are having issues.

Actual spec for voltage drop in a starting system is .5 volts or less, total....I think most issues are caused by too much and most overlook this....

PM checks on generators include a cranking voltage test

Set your meter to record and hook on the battery or batteries or the starter B+ post and you will almost always see below 10 volts on cranking and a similar drop on 24 volt units

These would be all kinds of different machines from smallish size to very large and the larger units have at least 2 batteries and very large cables....Batteries are critical so they get changed more often and are being charged/maintained 24/7

A .5 volt drop is not realistic and not what your going to see usually....

quote:

Originally posted by SCDIV1:
PM checks on generators include a cranking voltage test

Set your meter to record and hook on the battery or batteries or the starter B+ post and you will almost always see below 10 volts on cranking and a similar drop on 24 volt units

These would be all kinds of different machines from smallish size to very large and the larger units have at least 2 batteries and very large cables....Batteries are critical so they get changed more often and are being charged/maintained 24/7

A .5 volt drop is not realistic and not what your going to see usually....

Actually, it's a spec on trash trucks that I used to work on, and they have a TON more crap that can kill voltage between the batteries and starters than any car will ever even think about....But I'm not talking what the batteries drop to when cranking, I'm talking how much voltage is lost through cables/connections... .5 volts is very realistic and easily obtained....

Don't measure battery voltage when cranking, measure the drop across the cables/connections while cranking....go from pos batt post to first connection in the pos cable, then next, and so on. Do the same on the ground side all the way back to the battery.....it can be very enlightening......

quote:

Originally posted by Coloradoracer:

quote:

Originally posted by TOP38:
At the starter, hook a voltage meter to the positive lead, crank the motor with the ignition off, read the voltage after it stabilizes, you want 9.5v or more in a 12v system. Less than 9, you have issues in the wiring assuming your battery and starter are good! Starters can sound OK but draw way more current that they should and compound this issue so have your starters checked if you are having issues.

Actual spec for voltage drop in a starting system is .5 volts or less, total....I think most issues are caused by too much and most overlook this....

No idea what spec you are talking about but that number is not possible with a front battery mount in a dragster! You have a 1.5 volt loss just from the battery cable alone. A rear mounted batter in a door car is going to have at least .75 volts. The you have to add the connection losses.

Those numbers are with 1/0 battery cable.

quote:

Originally posted by TOP38:
No idea what spec you are talking about but that number is not possible with a front battery mount in a dragster! You have a 1.5 volt loss just from the battery cable alone. A rear mounted batter in a door car is going to have at least .75 volts. The you have to add the connection losses.

Those numbers are with 1/0 battery cable.

It is....we used 1/0 battery cables on the trucks.....Depending on where the batteries were mounted, with solid, CLEAN, tight connections, I've actually measured less than that before....if you've ever seen the routing of some of the cabling on those, you'd see what I mean...not uncommon for the battery cables to be 12-15' long on some trucks....I've measured as much as 7-8 volts on problem trucks, and .3-.4 on new trucks.....so yes, it's possible....

And remember, I'm not talking about how much the volts drop from the load when cranking, I'm talking about resistance through the cables when cranking.....measuring from positive batt terminal to pos starter terminal, then from engine ground back to battery ground....

NOT voltage at battery terminals when cranking......

quote:

Originally posted by Coloradoracer:

quote:

Originally posted by SCDIV1:
PM checks on generators include a cranking voltage test

Set your meter to record and hook on the battery or batteries or the starter B+ post and you will almost always see below 10 volts on cranking and a similar drop on 24 volt units

These would be all kinds of different machines from smallish size to very large and the larger units have at least 2 batteries and very large cables....Batteries are critical so they get changed more often and are being charged/maintained 24/7

A .5 volt drop is not realistic and not what your going to see usually....

Actually, it's a spec on trash trucks that I used to work on, and they have a TON more crap that can kill voltage between the batteries and starters than any car will ever even think about....But I'm not talking what the batteries drop to when cranking, I'm talking how much voltage is lost through cables/connections... .5 volts is very realistic and easily obtained....

Don't measure battery voltage when cranking, measure the drop across the cables/connections while cranking....go from pos batt post to first connection in the pos cable, then next, and so on. Do the same on the ground side all the way back to the battery.....it can be very enlightening......

Lets's see whats more critical......An emergency backup power generator or a garbage truck. DUH !!!

Yes your test is valid but not what is done in my world....

We use pro quality battery cables and crimp on ends and look at machines that may be brand new or 40+ years old....and from some little P.O.S. to something as big as a garbage truck

Not me anymore but it is what I did every day for sometime........Could be a 500-750KW unit or larger.....! MEGA Watt units...

quote:

Originally posted by SCDIV1:
Lets's see whats more critical......An emergency backup power generator or a garbage truck. DUH !!!

Yes your test is valid but not what is done in my world....

We use pro quality battery cables and crimp on ends and look at machines that may be brand new or 40+ years old....and from some little P.O.S. to something as big as a garbage truck

Not me anymore but it is what I did every day for sometime........Could be a 500-750KW unit or larger.....! MEGA Watt units...

Hehehe, let the trash not get picked up for a week or two and get back to me on that.....

I hear ya, Trash not getting picked up Depends a little on your location

Cold country not so bad but in the hot areas, no bueno !!