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Dragster wing angle?
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posted
I understand this question is entirely too vague to give a definitive answer......
After running 1/8 mile for the last few years, running a full 1/4 mile in Bakersfield was a real eye opener.....
Man 180 is a crapload faster than 148.. I know, no shyt dummy..
Seems right after I went by the 1/8 marker my dragster would start moving around a lot Right now I have a 1-1-1/2 degree down angle...I first put a wing on to address this 15yrs ago when I first got the car..Since I set it at only 1-ish degree down I always assumed the spill plates actually fixed the wander...But now I'm thinking of giving it at least a few more degrees down...When I first did all this the dragster only ran 165-170 (small block) now it's 180 (big block)

As I said, impossible to say do XYZ ,,,,, but just some general thoughts please...


.
Dave



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Posts: 4480 | Location: Earth | Registered: February 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've run just under 180 W.O.T. without a wing and had no issues with moving around as you call it...

Many runs at mid 170's in S/C mode and I think very few runs that I ever felt "loose"

Only time that might have happened was on a cold poorly prepped track or in a cross wind condition

Sounds like your car has some kind of issue that needs addressing or where your racing is a junk track or a tire issue ?? and a wing is not the answer...IMHO
 
Posts: 2733 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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170 was the area where I felt unstable. With the wing....stable. Never more than a couple degrees.


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Posts: 6421 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Why is the car moving around? Bad track, bumpy, bad shocks if 4 link, etc? I have been well over 190 with no wing and no issues. I run a wing now mainly to help when racing on a cool track or at night. My wing with little angle produces about 300 lbs of downforce. All wings aren't created equally, there are some out there that only for fill rule and do absolutely nothing regarding down force! As for the attach angle, more will give you more down force and drag to a point then the wing will stall and produce no down force. If you have issues at 180, I'd want to know why first. No saying don't run a wing, there are many running faster with no wing with no issues.
 
Posts: 2161 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Downforce increase is hard to pinpoint w/o actual design of wing and builder having tested it.

I do have little experience with wing on TAD that was single element although probably wider and longer. I know with wing I had you had down force at -4* and it climb quick from there. At 7* the down force gain vs drag gain started to be a loss.Now this was based on 250 mph stuff.

All of that said the point is a little can mean a lot. Do you run data logger? If so you should see driceshaft looking like a little wheel spin if loose, If me I would add what you feel is enough to keep car glued to the track. Then I would back off 1* at a time till you either feel it is loose and go back up or till you feel like you are at the point you want to run at.

Start at 3 or 4 and that would be a lot on well designed wing.




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Posts: 4236 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My car is a hardtail 230" dragster. Several times over the years I checked 4 wheel alignment.I've tried zero tow-in, 1/16. 1/8, never any difference. Putting the wing on made a tremendous difference.....Bakersfield wasn't exactly "prepping" the track through the weekend, so maybe the topend was nothing done. And Bakersfield IS a very dirty/dusty track anyway. That and the fact I haven't ran that fast in a long time, so maybe that was the issue(s)....

BUT, back to wing attack angle....I don't mind if I slow down a little from it...just less I have to lift anyway.....

I guess I'll just put a degree more in at a time and make a run and try to find a sweet spot between drag and stability...if there is one to be found..


.
Dave



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On my old blue altered it would feel "loose" in the 1/4 mile top end 165 or so and sometimes in the 1/8 mile if track was cool and slick.
The wing really helped that car a lot. The faster you went the more stable it got and cross winds did not bother it as much. Do not remember how much angle I had in it.

I did not notice any ET or MPH change but did not do A to B to A testing as it worked quite well and made car very stable. So I did not care if it did slow a little.


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Going 230 mph I had as little at 1* and as much as 5* depending on conditions. 2-3* was pretty typical. This was a suspended car and large Spitzer wing
 
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'what steve said'most of the tracks are not prepped well after a 1/8


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Posts: 1421 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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we never ran more than 1 1/2* on the Spitzer , running 220+ ... and driver never said anything about feeling loose ... havent run the new miller in the 1/4 yet but its set at 0 now , as we only go 150+ in the 1/8

I guess theres no way to tell the amount of downforce on a particular setup unless you have some kind of data recorder reading it ?
 
Posts: 785 | Location: hopefully pickin up a check in the winners circle | Registered: November 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Curly1
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quote:
Originally posted by Big Steve:
Going 230 mph I had as little at 1* and as much as 5* depending on conditions. 2-3* was pretty typical. This was a suspended car and large Spitzer wing


Was there any noticeable difference between 1* and 5* in ET and MPH?


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"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4061 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Steve:
Going 230 mph I had as little at 1* and as much as 5* depending on conditions. 2-3* was pretty typical. This was a suspended car and large Spitzer wing


Was there any noticeable difference between 1* and 5* in ET and MPH?


Honestly I never made any comparison, when I ran a lot of angle it was due to poor conditions down track due to bumps upsetting the car or lack of prep. Keeping the car going straight was my only concern
 
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going from 7.40s to 6.90s (i assume 4.30s is around there, haven't made 1/4 pass.) I had to make a four link change to keep the car stable from 500' on. Ran it a 1000' once after the change and planted. No wing.
 
Posts: 555 | Location: somewhere between been and never was | Registered: November 03, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What angle did you have the no wing at?


.
Dave



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Posts: 4480 | Location: Earth | Registered: February 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by imakehp:
My car is a hardtail 230" dragster. Several times over the years I checked 4 wheel alignment.I've tried zero tow-in, 1/16. 1/8, never any difference. Putting the wing on made a tremendous difference.....Bakersfield wasn't exactly "prepping" the track through the weekend, so maybe the topend was nothing done. And Bakersfield IS a very dirty/dusty track anyway. That and the fact I haven't ran that fast in a long time, so maybe that was the issue(s)....

BUT, back to wing attack angle....I don't mind if I slow down a little from it...just less I have to lift anyway.....

I guess I'll just put a degree more in at a time and make a run and try to find a sweet spot between drag and stability...if there is one to be found..


So it sounds like it's combo deal, track prep/dirt, bumps on the track and your chassis/combo.

What motor do you have in the car, I have seen too many small block combo's that are way over tired! Too much tire will cause the tail to wag the dog!

Who's wing, I'd call them and get the max angle you can run and put it there first. Also make sure you ask them how to measure the wing angle!

What tires are you running and what air pressure.
 
Posts: 2161 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Wing angle going down track can easily be 1.5-2* more than static because of tire growth.

Measuring can be tricky if it has a wickerbill.
This data log shows right side compressing while left extends at launch. At 2 seconds into the run the wing is creating enough down force to start compressing both sides. At the finish line (206MPH) compression is 1 1/4" (probably bottoming shocks)

 
Posts: 671 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: April 26, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^ Dave, Some great input here and Greg’s Racepak data should really help you. We’ve found the wicker is much more important ( wicker height) than the wing angle. As Greg stated it can bury the shocks and kill speed.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BP758,


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Posts: 4534 | Location: Vacaville  | Registered: January 07, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah Jeff gave me the wicker tip …. Sounds like exactly what I need. Quick/easy thing to try also. I don’t have shocks to compress so I’m assuming it will all go into tire plant. Again slowing down a little is actually a good thing for me. (Said no dragracer ever lol)


.
Dave



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Perfect!


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Posts: 4534 | Location: Vacaville  | Registered: January 07, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I fabricated an adjustable lexan Gurney Flap on the back edge of the wing of my Davis Roadster. The thought originally was to increase the down force in high gear, it did, I just don't have a way to measure/confirm the additional load amount. What it also did was to reduce the trap speed by 2 to 3 mph (1/8th). I've adjusted the height from 0 to 2 inches and the results are interesting. Most of the time it's set at 1 inch that dropped the speed from 136 to 134 while making the car "Feel" more stable in high gear.

Bob
 
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