quote:

Originally posted by DRB Motorsports:

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Originally posted by racerdude2054:
Michael, you know we ran injection for years. Probably ran injection longer than anyone else around. We also ran alcohol carbs on multiple cars from multiple builders. Once we switched to gas I honestly don’t think we will ever go back to alcohol.

I will say this much, if you decide to go injection you 100% have to have a primer plus system and the person I would call would be James Monroe.

who's this?

Michael, this is Kline speaking on Whitley racing cars. Give Todd a call if you need to

I've ran both injection and carb. My carb is great but Injection is much easier to tune. As someone mentioned in this post, the primer plus is a must. I ran my dragster all around on pump gas and switched over to alky when I pulled out of the staging lanes. It warms the car quick and keeps the oil clean. You'll use a lot less alky with the primer. James Monroe and Scott are both very helpful with the injection.

You should pick up .10-.15 with injection over carb. Still if you have access to try a Gas carb it is quick and easy and can not hurt to try it.

It is rather amazing how many "Professional" carb builders can not get their carbs to run right. There is even some bad information in some of the carb books. Some were repeating bad information.

Injection is pretty easy to tune.

Another thing in regards to injection, get ready to burn A LOT of fuel. You will need a couple of gallons of gas for the primer plus and you will go through a 5 gallon jug of alcohol every 2 passes. You may have people say they only burn 1.5-2 gallons of alcohol a pass on injection. On multiple motors and setups over the years we never saw that. More in range of 2-2.5 gallons of alcohol and about half a gallon of gas from the time we left the trailer until we got back to the trailer

One time we went to Huntsville and then montgomery for the million in back to back weeks. One car on alcohol injection and the other on a pro systems alcohol carb. In the two races we went though two full drums of alcohol and had to go buy more

Ran a terminator for about 4 years. Ran a toilet for about 4 years. Ran a pro system alcohol carb for 4 years. Ran an APD alcohol carb for a year. Ran a Reupert alcohol carb for 3 years.

^^^^^^^racerdude, what size were those engines? Did you ever run an AFR sensor with your MFI? If yes with AFR sensor, what AFR at idle and on track? Just curious.

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Originally posted by racerdude2054:
Another thing in regards to injection, get ready to burn A LOT of fuel. You will need a couple of gallons of gas for the primer plus and you will go through a 5 gallon jug of alcohol every 2 passes. You may have people say they only burn 1.5-2 gallons of alcohol a pass on injection. On multiple motors and setups over the years we never saw that. More in range of 2-2.5 gallons of alcohol and about half a gallon of gas from the time we left the trailer until we got back to the trailer

One time we went to Huntsville and then montgomery for the million in back to back weeks. One car on alcohol injection and the other on a pro systems alcohol carb. In the two races we went though two full drums of alcohol and had to go buy more

Ran a terminator for about 4 years. Ran a toilet for about 4 years. Ran a pro system alcohol carb for 4 years. Ran an APD alcohol carb for a year. Ran a Reupert alcohol carb for 3 years.

Not sure who setup up your injection deal but that's wrong,,, I am not saying you didn't use that much either. I ran a terminator on an old 565 combo that made 1025HP. I used the primer plus to the lanes, switch to alky just before the burnout and ran it on injection back to the pits, used no where near what you state, 1.5 gallons was typical. Used about the same with a carb with no primer plus also. One thing about ally, it still runs good pig rich, gas won't!

i honeslty don’t remember using more than a gallon of methanol per run last terminator set up we ran. maybe 1-1.5 round trip back to trailor.

When I ran a Rons Terminator I used just under 1.5 gallons per run racing 1/8 mile and that includes driving too and from. Only time I used the gas primer plus was first start up of the day and then I would run it at the end of the day to get they alky out of the cylinders.
Just from my exp you will not save money on fuel switching to alky, if anyone tells you that they are lying because you burn 2-3 times alky then you do with gas.

Steve sorry but with what you’re saying about amount used so you on gas you only used 1/2 a gallon

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Originally posted by Big Steve:
Just from my exp you will not save money on fuel switching to alky, if anyone tells you that they are lying because you burn 2-3 times alky then you do with gas.

Big Steve…KNOWS!

I run a carb on gas and only run 7.90s and go thru 1.5 gallons round trip

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from my exp you will not save money on fuel switching to alky,because you burn 2-3 times alky then you do with gas.

3 gal of Methanol = $9.75 . How much for 1 gal of race gas ???

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Originally posted by markemark:
^^^^^^^racerdude, what size were those engines? Did you ever run an AFR sensor with your MFI? If yes with AFR sensor, what AFR at idle and on track? Just curious.

Never ran AFR sensor. Cars were very consistent and tuned by James Monroe. We ran a toilet on a 555 and a terminator on a 632. Ran alcohol carbs of varying size motors

The injection drank alcohol like it was it’s joB. Just like big steve said if anyone says you are saving money by switching to alcohol (injection especially) they are lying because injection especially is roughly 3 times the amount of racing gas. This is from real world experience over multiple years not just a one time thing

I will say most of the time the alcohol consumption was around 2 to 2.25 gallons with a few outliers higher

This message has been edited. Last edited by: racerdude2054,

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Originally posted by TOP38:

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Originally posted by racerdude2054:
Another thing in regards to injection, get ready to burn A LOT of fuel. You will need a couple of gallons of gas for the primer plus and you will go through a 5 gallon jug of alcohol every 2 passes. You may have people say they only burn 1.5-2 gallons of alcohol a pass on injection. On multiple motors and setups over the years we never saw that. More in range of 2-2.5 gallons of alcohol and about half a gallon of gas from the time we left the trailer until we got back to the trailer

One time we went to Huntsville and then montgomery for the million in back to back weeks. One car on alcohol injection and the other on a pro systems alcohol carb. In the two races we went though two full drums of alcohol and had to go buy more

Ran a terminator for about 4 years. Ran a toilet for about 4 years. Ran a pro system alcohol carb for 4 years. Ran an APD alcohol carb for a year. Ran a Reupert alcohol carb for 3 years.

Not sure who setup up your injection deal but that's wrong,,, I am not saying you didn't use that much either. I ran a terminator on an old 565 combo that made 1025HP. I used the primer plus to the lanes, switch to alky just before the burnout and ran it on injection back to the pits, used no where near what you state, 1.5 gallons was typical. Used about the same with a carb with no primer plus also. One thing about ally, it still runs good pig rich, gas won't!

It was for sure rich, that is where it ran the best and most consistent. Tried to stage around 160 (primer plus in staging lanes to 170ish) by the time I came off the track the motor was at 130. If I kept it on alcohol back to the Trailer it would be 110-120 at the trailer with no fan and no water pump even in a Georgia summer.

Alcohol (Mechanical) injection and MOST of the alcohol carb builders set them up very fat at idle and low RPM so you waste a lot of fuel. They do that so it will not stumble at the hit. Does not have to be that fat. Most of the fuel you are wasting is at idle and driving to the staging lanes and back to your pit. You can lean idle down and it will cut your alcohol use almost in half. It will also build heat much faster. You may have 5 minutes of low RPM for each 5 second run. That is where you are using most of the fuel.

Just be aware if you set it up on the edge towards lean side when air gets better you must fatten it up some or it will spit and stumble and could cost you a round. You do not have to burn 2.5 gallons a pass. I drive up there and back and start it to pull forward in the lanes and use maybe 1.5 gallons? When I was running an alcohol carb for a while I was using about 3 quarts a pass but towards end of year when air got better I had to open idle mixture up more. I do not run them that lean now but my stuff is generally leaner than most others at low RPM.

As for O2 sensors I am a big believer in them but I do not use it for idle. I only check finish line O2 and tune from there for wide open. I feel it may take a second to stabilize the reading. As for Idle O2 readings it is typically fat because when you open throttle you need enough fuel to feed motor. Depending on your motor size, cam and many other variables I can not tell you how much fuel you need at low RPM. Just need enough to come up on RPM clean at the hit and many variables there. That is why most people have them set up very fat at low RPM.

One other thing about O2 sensors or even timing do not go by what so and so says it needs to be. Your O2 System or calibration on it or timing light may be a little different and your motor may be different. My motor likes 28*-30* timing and 12.9 to 13.1 (I use the gas scale)on the O2.

Say what you want but less then 2 bucks a gallon is better then 16 a gallon any day of the week.. That said i would go injection with the primer plus

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Originally posted by RacerVX54:
Say what you want but less then 2 bucks a gallon is better then 16 a gallon any day of the week.. That said i would go injection with the primer plus

You’re getting drums of methanol with top lube right now for 100 bucks or less a drum?

i have run both alcohol and gas. my alcohol was carb and not injection. there was a small difference in cost but as others have stated by the time you calculate the added volume cost savings was minimal. also the added aggravation with alcohol such as cold starting and ugly oil i found it not to be worth it. my thoughts on it as well is the junkier the motor the more gains i found in alcohol the more efficient my motor got the less gain i saw in alcohol. my gas is just as fast and just as good and is easier to deal with.

ep

After making the switch to alky injection, I won't ever run gas/carbs again. It's just too easy and offers some benefits over gas on my stuff. I went with KillerRon's and haven't regretted it for a minute.....

I see the same statements a lot on here and never understood why so many have injection setup so rich on bottom end. I am not knocking anyone here. It is just so easy to amnipulate injection to get it to do what ever you want.

If you set BV leaner it only affects idle and throttles response. Since most here are not leaving at idle then off idle response is useless important. You can also use fuel shutoff to lean mixture . There are more ways to set up i njection than there are parts in a carb and thats way too many.

Maybe I have just been lucky at setting injection