quote:

https://tridon.com.au/databank...ro-Radiator-Caps.pdf

good read for sure,but looking at summit for caps there is no reference to recovery or non.i guess in this day all are assumed to be recovery

http://www.stant.com/index.php...acing-radiator-caps/

quote:

STANT Racing RADIATOR Caps
10361 (19-21 pounds), 10362 (22-24 pounds), 10363 (28-32 pounds)
Mini Race cap, all include upper gasket for use on open and closed cooling systems.

10371 (18-22 pounds), 10372 (21-25 pounds), 10373 (28-32 pounds)
Standard SAE “A” size, does not include upper gasket so they are for use on open cooling systems only.

10381 (18-22 pounds), 10382 (21-25 pounds)
Stant Lev-R-Vent style that is Standard SAE “A” size, does include upper gasket so they are for use on open and closed cooling systems.

10391 (18-22 pounds), 10392 (21-25 pounds), 10393 (28-32 pounds), 10394 (38-42 pounds)
Stant style that is Standard SAE “A” size, does include upper gasket so they are for use on open and closed cooling systems.

From what I have researched, a recovery style has 2 seals and an open/non-recovery only has one.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TomR,

thanks tom

quote:

Originally posted by WHOMPWHOMP:
[QUOTE]

Because you asked, Meziere make 1 part number WR100.
https://www.meziere.com/Produc...-Tank-Rectangle.aspx

It is ideal that the tank have a way of adding fluid to it if needed.

There ya go! Wasn't even aware Meziere made one. Thanks for posting.

quote:

Originally posted by Richie:
For those who have a plastic Jaz OVERFLOW CAN, you can pull out the fitting on the top and press a piece of tubing (I used St.St.) to reach to the bottom thus turning it into a RECOVERY Can instead, I also put a bead of silicone around the tubing to assure it will hold vacuum. This can works nice because you still have the drain on the bottom.

I did the same thing, used epoxy around the tube to seal it. I also ran a piece of clear tubing on the drain and looped it and it slides into a cable clamp above the tank. This way if the drain gets hit accidentally it just goes into the hose and not on the track. It's also a sight glass for how full the tank is. If you open the drain the coolant will fill the hose to the level in the tank.

quote:

Originally posted by 1leg:

quote:

Originally posted by WHOMPWHOMP:
[QUOTE]

Because you asked, Meziere make 1 part number WR100.
https://www.meziere.com/Produc...-Tank-Rectangle.aspx

It is ideal that the tank have a way of adding fluid to it if needed.

THANKS

quote:

Originally posted by 1leg:

quote:

Originally posted by WHOMPWHOMP:
[QUOTE]

Because you asked, Meziere make 1 part number WR100.
https://www.meziere.com/Produc...-Tank-Rectangle.aspx

It is ideal that the tank have a way of adding fluid to it if needed.

I know this an old thread but I am updating my cooling system this winter. I have the DRR tall water neck with Meziere 16lb cap and Meziere 100HD pump. It's a Mullis with the radiator over the 4 link at an angle. My catch can is behind the engine much lower than the water neck.

I am going to change the catch can to the Meziere recovery tank. I've used 1/4" quick connect tubing to the catch can in the past.

Will the system be able to pull coolant back into the water neck with this setup or will I need to find a different location for the recovery tank? Is the 1/4 tubing OK for this or should I switch to a -4 AN line?

I have mine right next to the pump with a #4 Sb hose going right to the neck on the WP..

quote:

Originally posted by TD3550:
I have mine right next to the pump with a #4 Sb hose going right to the neck on the WP..

Mine is way lower than that an as not given me any problems…with just the 1/4 tubing…just make sure there is always a small amount of water in there

quote:

Originally posted by WHOMPWHOMP:

quote:

Originally posted by TD3550:
I have mine right next to the pump with a #4 Sb hose going right to the neck on the WP..

Mine is way lower than that an as not given me any problems…with just the 1/4 tubing…just make sure there is always a small amount of water in there

Thanks. I figured the 1/4 tubing would be fine and I have about 50' of the high temp stuff from McMaster Carr.

quote:

Originally posted by WILLIAM HAMILTON:
what is the proper radiator cap pressure bbc.

[QUOTE] With regular head gaskets I use a 12 or a 15lb but with copper head gaskets I wouldn't go over 10. [QUOTE]

/\ Pretty much the staple of answers for the original question.

As far as to open or closed system, the myth that an open system that allows air in the coolant will cause bubbles and overheating is just that. The benefit of having a closed system is maintenance free and allows the radiator cap to loose efficiency without continuously purging coolant out of the system. If the upper gasket is still good on the cap, the contraction of the fluid when cooling will create a vacuum and draw the previously expelled coolant back into the system. The spring on the cap is rated in PSI to control the purge point during coolant expansion.

The simple science that you can compress air but not liquid applies here; when using an open system or a closed system (doesn’t matter) there has to be an allowance for the coolant to expand.

The closed system; when the operating pressure reaches the cap retention point it allows the coolant to push out and create room for expansion. This goes into a system that can also draw the coolant back in during thermal contraction of the coolant via a sealed system cap containing an upper seal and a lower seal with a one way check valve in between. This concept will always maintain pure fluid volume without the air volume. (truly is the best choice)

The open system; will allow a proportionate amount of coolant to get pushed out of the system during thermal expansion, then during the thermal contraction the fluid will contain X amount of air volume (proportionate to coolant volume in system) if the cap and PSI rating for the application is GOOD. The air in the system is then compressed during the next thermal expansion cycle virtually eliminating any chance of air voids or cavities of significance....in a circulating system (not to be compared to a static flow system – not than any bracket cars use that approach). When this concept works correctly the amount pushed out will only happen one time – first full heat cycle. If the system continues to push out coolant, then the cap is defective or underrated PSI to begin with – read that again.

Trivia - Our environmental folks back in the late 60s pushed for closed systems for automobiles to reduce the harmful elements of spilled antifreeze. The concerns were the dangers of animal consumption, slick spots on the roadways and controlling rainwater runoff from potentially washing that stuff into the fresh water aquifers….not an automotive fluid dynamics scientist/engineer for coolant system improvement. Keep in mind the automotive science and technology field wasn’t very in depth with radiator caps back in the day, most were junk (defective rating) the day they were installed.

Moral to the story, both can be a fully efficient system in the world of heat exchange and if you don't have a closed system...I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.

quote:

Originally posted by DragRaceResults:
Good questions turns into a great topic.

You guys point out some key things.

The first is that the system "must" have pressure to perform correctly as in simple terms the pressure keeps the liquid against the metal surfaces as in the combustion chamber / valve seats / etc. where the initial heat is generated. Without pressure the water would boil in those areas creating air / bubbles / etc allowing for hot spots and detonation.

Yes you must be careful not to run to much pressure to not damage other parts of the cooling system / radiator / head gaskets / etc.

Correct when figuring the 3-4 degree factor per pound. But this certainly relies on making sure you aren't boiling the liquid in the system first. That's why having all air purged from you system is so critical.

Nascar Cup cars now run pressurized systems in upwards of 3x lbs in order to run water temps 260 plus without boiling the liquid.

... Carry On

Don't forget the "head pressure" in the small areas, maintained by the mechanical pump flow. This is part of the need for an outlet restriction to ensure the cooling passages are full. The other part is to tune the heat transfer rate.

Standard 15 lb. closed system cap is suitable for most of us.

[/QUOTE]
I know this an old thread but I am updating my cooling system this winter. I have the DRR tall water neck with Meziere 16lb cap and Meziere 100HD pump. It's a Mullis with the radiator over the 4 link at an angle. My catch can is behind the engine much lower than the water neck.

I am going to change the catch can to the Meziere recovery tank. I've used 1/4" quick connect tubing to the catch can in the past.

Will the system be able to pull coolant back into the water neck with this setup or will I need to find a different location for the recovery tank? Is the 1/4 tubing OK for this or should I switch to a -4 AN line?[/QUOTE]

I LOVED my Mullis dragster but man was it a pain to get all the air out with the radiator in the back! I used to leave it partially in the trailer with the front wheels up and the back on the ground and leave the water pump running. I would grab the cage and shake the car back and forth.... just when you thought it was done, it would 'burp' a little more air out. Wait a few minutes & repeat. It would take at least 3 or 4 burps before all the air was out. I know someone will come along and say "I just pour water in mine, put the cap on and go racing" but that was my experience. I did not have my overflow set up to recover but I'm pretty sure if you don't get all the air out, the system won't recover properly.

quote:

Originally posted by BD104X:

I know this an old thread but I am updating my cooling system this winter. I have the DRR tall water neck with Meziere 16lb cap and Meziere 100HD pump. It's a Mullis with the radiator over the 4 link at an angle. My catch can is behind the engine much lower than the water neck.

I am going to change the catch can to the Meziere recovery tank. I've used 1/4" quick connect tubing to the catch can in the past.

Will the system be able to pull coolant back into the water neck with this setup or will I need to find a different location for the recovery tank? Is the 1/4 tubing OK for this or should I switch to a -4 AN line?[/QUOTE]

I LOVED my Mullis dragster but man was it a pain to get all the air out with the radiator in the back! I used to leave it partially in the trailer with the front wheels up and the back on the ground and leave the water pump running. I would grab the cage and shake the car back and forth.... just when you thought it was done, it would 'burp' a little more air out. Wait a few minutes & repeat. It would take at least 3 or 4 burps before all the air was out. I know someone will come along and say "I just pour water in mine, put the cap on and go racing" but that was my experience. I did not have my overflow set up to recover but I'm pretty sure if you don't get all the air out, the system won't recover properly.[/QUOTE]

It's a pain sometimes for sure. I've done the same on the trailer, made a funnel to pour water through the 1/8 hole in radiator and use a radiator pressure tester to move the water back.

I'm hoping that the change to a recovery system will help with the process.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TonyB6255,

My undercover car with the radiator in the back is really easy to get the air out, fill it and turn the pump on and off until it stops burping out air, top of off the next day and it’s done.

My wife’s Miller car with the radiator in the back has always been a pain to get the air out. I have tried the vacuum fill deal and that wasn’t very effective either. What works great is one of those funnels that connect to the filler neck, like this one. Fill the system up, hook the funnel up, fill it about half way, start the engine and warm it up. You’ll see the air bubble out as the engine warms up, add water as necessary. Typically it’s all done when the water temp hits about 140. Best $20 you’ll spend if you have trouble getting the air out.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 183N,

quote:

Originally posted by 183N:
My undercover car with the radiator in the back is really easy to get the air out, fill it and turn the pump on and off until it stops burping out air, top of off the next day and it’s done.

My wife’s Miller car with the radiator in the back has always been a pain to get the air out. I have tried the vacuum fill deal and that wasn’t very effective either. What works great is one of those funnels that clamp connect to the filler neck, like this one. Fill the system up, hook the funnel up, fill it about half way, start the engine and warm it up. You’ll see the air bubble out as the engine warms up, add water as necessary. Typically it’s all done when the water temp hits about 140. Best $20 you’ll spend if you have trouble getting the air out.

I will be ordering that. I did something similar using a gallon water jug. I never had an issue until I got the 9 degree engine built but for some reason I could never get that purged completely.

For a recovery tank to work properly you want it as close to the filler neck as possible. If its mounted down by the bottom frame rail it will have a very hard time to pull the coolant out of the tank as the system cools. I would say the top of the recovery tank should be about the same hight as the bottom of the intake. Mounted to the head, the blow shield or upper frame rail will work.

There is a reason back in the day that truck engine manufacturers put Pet*** in the upper most
part of the cooling systems. Bleed the air and cuts the cavitation down of which is very damaging to the cooling system. Seen many cook the head when the pet*** was not open on the fill and run procedure. Always air entrapment. specifically around the cooling jackets next to the valves.