Here's with my son in the drivers seat .......



We can add up to 250lbs of ballast in this spot. Truck works very well, it's just a little heavy.

Bob, based on the scales, it can be much better.

Thanks Bob.

To others; sorry this discussion fell into the abyss most good tech questions on DRR do.

I got a lot of PMs on the questions and answers. I found a couple excellent YouTube tech features on setting my truck up better, now that I have some history to use.

Dave- You are RIGHT, hilarious how those two can carry on about each other.

quote:

Bob, based on the scales, it can be much better.

We built the truck from scratch and had no clue how it would perform, figured these numbers might mean something if it didn't LOL
What do these numbers tell ya ??? How can it be improved ?? Trucks been really,really good but everything can be improved !!

quote:

Thanks Bob.

No problem Jok, figured maybe I could steer the conversation back to trucks

Bob, look at my corner weights compared to yours. You don’t need any weight when it’s setup right. Weight is a bandaid unless it’s being used to make a class weight or and index ET cutoff. Even then you add weight using scales so as to maintain the chassis setup. Further, look at Joe Dukin’s S10, that does not carry any weight/ballast. That truck works, always had, back when it was running 10s, 9s and now sub 8.50s. Any questions call me.

quote:

Originally posted by Toad1:
I do not have access to 4-wheel scales but I did roll it on some track scales. 1640 lbs on front and 1350 on rear. S&W Back half with 4-link and 140-lb springs.
I felt my issue was it would hook, pull the wheels maybe a foot and then drop them down and pull them off the ground again.
I added 150 to the rear of the frame rails and it almost cured the "double wheelie" issue but I am wondering if I could use less weight and accomplish the same.
I will try 75 over the rear end housing, as high as I can get it and see what happens.

Appreciate the ideas, I also will have a new converter in it that should be better; right Marco? ;-)

See ya at the stripe,

Jok

If it is hooking then un loading and hooking again you may be topping out the rear shocks. To cure that (If that is what it is doing) stiffen shock extension dampening and or make four link less aggressive.

AFCO shocks are very good that is what I run and recommend them. I do not know where they are made I looked on Web site and could not find anything that said "Made in America" I would think if they were made here they would say so.

It's been a while since I first asked about ballast, but here are the results from borrowing a set of scales, following some basic advice from S&W, ED and a really nice guy on YouTube, Kevin Wilson. His explanation of several things were simple to understand and effective.

Before the scales: Truck would vary .01-.04 every day at the track. Had a lot of "roll" as left tire would be 10-12" off ground and right front 3-4" and right rear was 3-5" lower than left sire. Track was NOT the issue as our dragster was very good as were other door cars.

First week out after the suspension, shock work and a new Abruzzi converter:

12 round wins in a row, won the Saturday Box side and the Box/No Box runoff, then lost in semis of Box Sunday.
60' range from high to low over two days: 1.380 to 1.389 (5 were 1.383. only varied .002 on Sunday in 6 runs 1.383-1.385).

Ended up preload was way off, and I took 78 lbs off the back of the truck.

Here are the original weights:
LF 772 RF 812
LR 779 RR 672
Left 51.1% CR 52.4%
Rear 47.8% total weight 3035

After measuring the lower 4 link arms to make sure they were the same length and rear was square in the chassis, which it was, I set pinion angle at down 2-degrees. Springs I had were correct and were right at 9" at ride height.

I was amazed how weight moved around with just 1-flat preload on upper right 4-link bar.

Here is the final setting we went with. 3 flats of preload on top right bar, two turns longer on the right anti-roll bar link.

Scales:

LF 846 RF 800
LR 652 RR 654
Left 50.7% CR 49.2
Rear 44.2% Weight 2952

Much different launch now. Zero visible body roll. front tires come up even and about 5", .05 quicker on average in 60' and truck is about .03 quicker.

Taking the weight off helped and then I lowered launch to 3600 and shift at 6600 (before we launched at 4000 and shifted at 7000.)

To be honest, I was amazed the first time I let go on Saturday, what a huge IMPROVEMENT getting the 4-link correct made!

Thanks to all of you for keeping me motivated it would be worth it, sure was.

Jok

I had no doubt that if you listened to me, you’d be amazed and thrilled with the results.

Originally posted by 1320racer:

quote:

your rear springs are too stiff. For reference, mine are 125lb.

I agree, I think at your rear weight 110# or 120# max. Stiff springs make it hard on the shocks.

Not even sure what mine are. They are 12" springs and 9" at ride height, that means they are correct.

ED... you have your "issues" on here but you steered me in the right direction and all I do is race in bigger (not huge) money bracket races in Iowa. 2-$11K this weekend, $5K and $10K next weekend, then the SFG 3-$25K then Triple 7s at three different Iowa tracks this summer plus another Gall Star 2-$11K. Busy around here!!

See ya at the stripe.

Jok

quote:

Originally posted by 1320racer:
talk about what you know, not what you think you know! I'll put my knowledge and skills setting up a race car chassis against yours anyday of the week!

50/50 car

quote:

Originally posted by Toad1:
Not even sure what mine are. They are 12" springs and 9" at ride height, that means they are correct.

ED... you have your "issues" on here but you steered me in the right direction and all I do is race in bigger (not huge) money bracket races in Iowa. 2-$11K this weekend, $5K and $10K next weekend, then the SFG 3-$25K then Triple 7s at three different Iowa tracks this summer plus another Gall Star 2-$11K. Busy around here!!

See ya at the stripe.

Jok

Issues......lol.

Like calling the mother in law statuesque.

Jok, my issue is with you. You PM me asking for help. I tell you over several exchanges exactly what to do. I straighten out your truck and you come here and say I steered you in the right direction while thanking a clueless nobody on YouTube. That said, of course your truck works much better now, you had it all fuc’d up but it still ain’t right with the wrong springs and no preload over the RR tire.

Considering the reported performance of the new suspension setup which is observable on the timeslips, where's the logic in claiming it's Fuk'd up with the wrong preload and springs?

Maybe this is what he's speaking of, when he says you have issues?

There's no exact amount of pre-load or coil spring rate, that works for every car.

Evidence determines right and wrong.

The evidence in this case are the observable timeslips, which say the suspension is right.

3 flats of preload seem like a lot. We just did this to a friends car on the scales and had a half a flat is what it took after the rest of the was car sorted.

quote:

Originally posted by RacerVX54:
3 flats of preload seem like a lot. We just did this to a friends car on the scales and had a half a flat is what it took after the rest of the was car sorted.

You don't know of the negative pre-load in play beforehand, to logically say 3 flats seems like a lot.

Do you know what negative pre-load is?

I must of missed the negative preload in this original post

P.S 3 flats is alot.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RacerVX54,

I have determined this the past few days. No matter what gets posted here there are a lot of opinions.

Ed did help convince me to get some scales, what I learned was really good. I have raced and won races for a longtime but never really get technical about stuff, just race.

The adjustments I made, be it 3 flats or 10 flats worked perfect with the vehicle I am racing, a slow (6.50) S10. The rear springs are correct and the number on them is basically not something that matters to me.

You would have to look around a lot to find a better car (truck) right now. Reacting the same, 60' and 330' and 660' almost identical over 15 runs starting at 1Pm Saturday through 9PM Saturday and 10AM through 4 PM Sunday.

I appreciate everyone's ideas but it's time to race.
See ya at the stripe.

Jok

You win a race and go deep in the rounds next day and people say "that's a lot of pre load"

lol.