never has terminator or any of Rons stuff,also never worked on one. Mainly just have always had enderle stuff.

Any difference in setting BV on Ron's? I mean setting a tie bar with two lock nuts is pretty simple. Finding the perfect set point. different thing. I do not mean the standard turn till stumble, back till stumble, and stop in the middle. That is good starting point.

What is the suggested setting on a Ron's system?

Every single time I have went from carb to MFI throttle response was quicker and car went faster. I would say if your throttle response is not quicker with MFI your tune up is way off.

MFI uses more fuel and can be harder to start and some have trouble tuning it.

EFI has the potential to have best of both MFI and carb if you can tune them.

Any of them works when tuned right so there is no wrong answer.

Getting lazy there Bruce?

Already said if your MFI does not have a throttle response you have something wrong. half a dozen back.LOL

If you carb does not have throttle response. I may have been working on it.LMAO Since the last one I worked on was almost 40 years ago.

I also put together an EFI LT-1 350 small block powered Stocker back in 2006

Built the engine and tried tuning it myself using an Innovate LM-1

Had zero experience with that stuff but thought maybe it would be fun....it was NOT !!

Had an older Accel Gen VII DFI system

I even bought an Accel ECU data logger for it but really never got it to work worth a shyt....

The newer EFI systems are far more user friendly from what I have been told...Holley's being the best....My buddy has that on his EFI stockers and he has 3 of them !

I did run a best of 10.50's at 124+ and won class at one event running A/FIA so in spite of not knowing shyt about EFI I didn't do to bad...

Needed to get with a "tuner" on a chassis dyno and refine the fuel map.....

I sold it and bought another dragster and put a carb on it....LOL

quote:

EFI has the potential to have best of both MFI and carb if you can tune them.

Agreed, but I’ve never used a carb on a race car engine…. just watched many others taking them apart when not working as desired. Most I know that use them have several.

I had idea of using a carb base and bv for a 4 barrel MFI back in 1986 and was told never work for this reason and that reason. Lets say I was not as determined and never pursued it. Now using electronics to control it all was not as physible then. Plus I can handle anything mechanical but the black magic inside of computer does not compute. Setting BDK on A/fuel car is about as far as I go.

I agree EFI has tons of possibilities in the hands of someone who can work it to the potential I will stick with MFI old dogs like old tricks..

By the way I have a complete brand new dual Holley Sniper system I will not be able to use if anyone wants to make an offer.

quote:

Originally posted by 69427:

quote:

Originally posted by wideopen231:
If you have good pressure at idle through the nozzle sizing and bv setting. You can have great throttle response w/o being overly rich.

THIS!


If your MFI has less response than a carb, either you have something off or one he11 of carb builder. TRUE!


I have primer system. Pulling off main fuel line and right now too lean to drive car around on it.

I may need to add a gas system for primer as building heat is almost impossible right now.

Work on your system! That gas primer is not needed. Name one other type of race car (not a drag car) running MFI and methanol with a Primer plus system, it's a crutch.

Block and Pan heaters help. Its methanol it needs heat.



Our car idles, drives around the pits, and we can do a K turn in our driveway, no problems.

It really depends on the system. Electric fuel pumps are easy. Mechanical on mfi can be slow to build pressure. Just the nature of the beast. On sprint cars etc they can build pressure with push starts, and that really isn't the same thing. They have the car warm in the pits and probably squirt them to get them started first time.
That said, I don't feel that gas priming is ever needed. Prudent use of the lean out, getting heat in the engine, and use of a vacuum pump mean we never have to change oil because of moisture. Even when we were mfi.

They have the car warm in the pits and probably squirt them to get them started first time.
.[/QUOTE]

My friend leaves his 360 plugged in and covered up most of the time he is at the track. It regulates the temperature.

https://hotshotengineheater.com/

Primer plus and MFI user here. I don't use the Primer plus for driving to and from the lanes. I use it for a primer only and as a flush system at the end of the day to get all the methanol out of the system. Since doing this I've noticed cylinders look better during rebuilds. I'm using about 1.5 to 2 gallons per run. 598 + 250 TBS = 2 gallons, 615 NA 1.5 gallons driving to and from the trailer.

We drive up on the primer which is a high pressure fuel injector driven by a pulse width modulator so we can change the primer gas mixture from the drivers seat.

Drive back on methanol and depending on how far from the finish line we’re pitted they burn 1-1.5 gallons max. These are 540” and 555” going 7.40s-50s. Shut off cable is pulled out as much as it will go and the engine still run anytime the car is on methanol and not in the water box or making a run.

In my experience if a car is using a lot of methanol it means the idle is set up too rich. And that’s a self fulfilling prophecy - if it’s set up fat it’s harder to warm up so it takes more time running to get to temp while also burning more methanol since it’s rich.

You can get the same idle RPM either with a leaner BV and tighter throttle blades OR a richer barrel valve and more open throttle blades. We prefer a leaner BV to build temp more easily and use less fuel. We use our fan often and are 180+ at the end of a run. Some fellow racers have their BV set up richer and never use the fan. That’s all preference.

^^ exactly. Right now I am working on getting flys to shut tighter. Problem with big butterfly setup like bird catcher of Hilborn shotgun. The least amount makes huge difference. One of many reasons I am working on new smaller hat build .

I always run flys as tight as can get and if need more rpm I remove a 1/8 pipe plug about 250 to 300 rpm. I never change flys.

How many and what size vent holes are in your aerated nozzle bodies?

Our old Enderle deflectors had 2 @ .125 and the new Kinsler AS have 3 @ .125. Keeps the butterflies closed and atomizes the fuel good at idle.

2.5ish gallons per pass. 565 baby blower. She's thirsty.

quote:

Originally posted by 69427:
How many and what size vent holes are in your aerated nozzle bodies?

Our old Enderle deflectors had 2 @ .125 and the new Kinsler AS have 3 @ .125. Keeps the butterflies closed and atomizes the fuel good at idle.

No holes in nozzle holders. Run smaller nozzles for more pressure. Never have run with an injection and only had in hat with a blower. Even with factory hat and flys never got idle as low as liked with flys at .003 or .004. with them. Of course after the first time having issue never tried them again.

quote:

Originally posted by Nitrous1:
2.5ish gallons per pass. 565 baby blower. She's thirsty.

she got air and needs fuel.

quote:

Originally posted by wideopen231:

No holes in nozzle holders. Run smaller nozzles for more pressure. Never have run with an injection and only had in hat with a blower. Even with factory hat and flys never got idle as low as liked with flys at .003 or .004. with them. Of course after the first time having issue never tried them again.

Why don't you have aerated nozzle bodies in a naturally aspirated motor? You could close the butterflies more. The air coming in the nozzles breaks up the fuel also. You can still run the small nozzle jets to keep the system pressure up.

https://goodvibesracing.com/Te.../NOZZLE%20BODIES.PDF

https://www.alkydigger.net/product/EN7007-E.html

at .004 on lose spots. not much to close. Working oe cleaning up tight spots to see if can close more. Besides air is air. If had nozzles the air thru holes orf thru flys. Engine knows no difference. Flysa have no bearing on bv other than air to fuel and bv can be set same place with x amount of air. I could make aleak in hat to intake and idle would be up and add fuel to make over rich.

I need to reduce amount of air. With 5.375" flys it take very little to bo too much. Have a smaller injector and lower profile intake in future plans. Love look of shotgun style I have but thing smaller would be better.

This more a managable control issue than fuel usage and geared towards heat building for more effeicent combo. I don't care if use 5 gallons per run if it works great. Well rather not but if that is what it liked I would be ok with that.

Reason for post was to get a gauge to go off for target point. Aiming for 1.5 to 2 per run and seems like mkost in that area.

I had the same problem with a geradot square b-flys. The fit and make up was awesome, but just due to the geometry of the square B-Flys they induce more air at an idle when they are closed. Was burning a bunch of alky at an idle, I run vacuum pumps on everything so i never had trouble with the oil. The Geradot injector was just pulling in too much air. Swapped to a accufab 4 shooter approach and have much better control of air flow at an idle.

Anyone add a 2nd terminator throttle body on theirs and seen an improvement? Or something similar with going with a bigger injector hat? On a mild boosted 1300ish hp combo.