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Originally posted by jenavet:

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So as I believe many people out there (especially among this group) will choose not to purchase an EV for whatever reason, we will still be forced to pay the price

Its an inevitable transition.We can argue and complain all we want but thats just the way its going to be.100 years from now piston driven engines will be sitting in museums just like a model t ford is now.

That's par for the course from you, bend over and hold your azz cheeks open for your masters. While claiming it as inevitable.

Cowardice, compliance, obedience.

Your standard operating procedure.

I can hardly wait until homes are burning like race trailers carrying golf carts.....

It's another looting operation. Carbon taxes.

Ya lithium batteries are currently rather dangerous would not have one in my race car-yet but someday soon someone will make them as safe as lead-acid ones and just as bad to get rid of. No I dont have a nose ring or any body jewlery so fuk off on that one my signature came when I was a auto-body/mechanical instructor and I stand by its meaning only the STUPID never learn

Big picture lithium mining has some negative environmentally and world power wise. It’s not a place we should go. City folks don’t care because the mines aren’t in their back yard and the energy created by coal far from their homes

Read where they found Lithium under Salton Sea Ca... They will devastate that area.

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Originally posted by BP758:
Read where they found Lithium under Salton Sea Ca... They will devastate that area.

Ruining the environment in the name of saving the environment.

I am all for change IF IT IS CHANGE FOR THE BETTER. If EV's were were lower cost, had better range and less problems then they will sell like crazy. We are not there and I do not know if ever will be.

As others have mentioned here right now the EV's are not cost effective. If you have to drive hundreds of miles then they is no quick easy way to recharge them. You do not want to have to drive 2 hours and then stop and recharge for 4 hours. And they do not even have enough charging stations even if they were able to charge faster.
I do not think they will ever have electric trucks heavy duty enough to tow your car trailer, boat or what ever 200 miles each way.

And I think this whole EV push by the Government may in a way another way for them to control us more by limiting our Freedom.

Supply and demand. If the need for electric power grows so that the power grid is overwhelmed the electric companies with build more to accommodate it.

Problem is it will cost us..........

I've been in the EV repair for a good while. I'm also a middle class'er.

With that said here's some of my rants. EV's while mechanically simpler than ice, are electrically considerably more complex. You're trading one for the other. This brings into question the repair of them. Not everyone can repair, maybe suspension and brakes but the electrical and control side is left to techs only (for now). Techs are borderline EE's, and have to be in order to effectively repair them. I'm on the line there, I'm more suspension/drivetrain than electrical but the training is helping. The training is only as good as the trainers too, and I'll leave that to your own interpretation...

Our grid in this area is so old and so outdated that when a new house is built in this area, the grid gets taxed. In the summer, the voltage at my outlets fluctuates pretty good-10v either side of 120vac, and part of that is because the lines, transformers, substations can't handle additional loads placed on the existing grid-particularly in summer when everyone's home at 1700 and turns the a/c down to 65 degrees when it's 105 outside (and plenty humid). In years past we've had several transformers and many, many fuse failures. Upgrading the lines isn't as easy as one would think.

The money question is brought into it.

infrastructure is aged and needs updating. That costs. Who pays for it? Consumers. Then "they" want us to buy and drive ev. Newsflash: I cannot afford to buy a $60,000+ car, nor will I unless my income goes way up. My income ain't gonna go up that much until the boss pays better, and the boss can't pay better until HIS costs go down and/or his income goes way up too. It can't go up as fast as his costs do, and therein lies the entire problem with the whole ev thing. But so many don't understand how economics work here, rather they just want ev and they have no clue how common people are going to afford it. I drive a 30 year old car daily. It's paid off and has been for a decade or so. It has no value to anyone but me. I spoke with a congressman about this at a town hall meeting a while back and the thought that runs through their minds is that the average american drives a 12 year old car which still has some value, so they say that we can sell our 12.1 year old car for an average of $26,000 and change. I don't know where they come up with those figures. But it still leaves me (mr. average) on the hook for about $40,000 which by the way is more than I owe on my house and about 70% of my YEARLY income. $40,000 is gonna be, after sales tax is financed in, about $610/mo for SEVEN years. That's $209 more than my house payment is! Yes I live in a small house, but it's a nice place. In California it's probably a half million dollar property, here it's $72,000. So to that I say to those who are pushing the ev thing, buy it for me and I'll try one. Not until then.

They want us to buy ev, and the interest rates keep rising now. That's even more cost to us. It used to be that ev was tax free for the most part (at least gas tax) but states are now figuring out that ev's are going to be taxed at roughly the same way as gas. "I told you so". Some states are legislating that by 2030 you will not be able to register a gas car, period. meaning those of us who drive an antique because we can't afford a new car, are forced to--and that, my friend, should be illegal. However, those states are run by politicians who were elected by people that don't understand certain things; one being that an attempt to regulate in order to manipulate is part of communist idea. But we are already halfway to communism, so what's the big deal, right? THAT is where the voters of those particular states fail in their shortsightedness.

They say 2030 is the date. I'm sorry, unless things drastically change in such a way that costs reduce dramatically, there's no way I can foresee myself in an EV. Based on my on math, I won't be able to afford it after the hike in cost of living vs projected income improvements. That's an issue for many, and will be for the foreseeable future.

We already have rolling blackouts in the summer. In order to prevent that, they have to update the grid. They're saying that they can't update the grid because of (1) regulations, codes, etc and (2) it costs. #2 is easy, raise the rate and cover that, which is exactly what they're doing. Electricity is already 48% higher than it was this time last year. My income is exactly 0.0% higher than it was this time last year. See where that's going? Some say that "it's the cost of saving our planet"--and I say to that, there is no 100% PROOF that scientific theory is true, only manipulation of the data in order to mean something. And, since we need metals in order to make batteries, are the mining companies gonna use electric dump trucks and electric shovels to extract it? Electric 18 wheelers to haul supplies around? Electric trains? No, that won't change in the near future, but what will change is that the equipment that runs on diesel will be required to meet a 60% reduction in NoX soon, which also costs a bunch of money, which is tacked onto the cost of what the mining/trucking/hauling companies charge which the consumers end up paying for.

This whole deal is out of hand, and I don't see a lot of relief in the future. Get ready, it's going to be a rough next 10-15 years.

Great post M80! I’m in total agreement! This shyts not getting better any time soon.
You see the Bullet Train here right? What a Fn joke!

Don't forget on top of sky rocketing electric costs, all electric cars will pay a mileage tax to offset the taxes lost on gas sales.

Just saw a news report on ABC about a huge lithium deposit discovered under the Salton sea in southern California enough to make EV batteries for decades a geothermal co. is refining it and the big auto manufacturers are building a battery plant its here to stay boys like it or not

This entire discussion on electric vehicles (cars/trucks/planes/trains/etc.) replacing gasoline powered vehicles and equipment is the most thoughtless, inane, stupid idea I have ever heard.

6 Things to consider: There are many more but here are just 6.... maybe 7.

(1) Our present power grid can not accommodate/provide/sustain the power it will take to charge every electric vehicle on the road, it can hardly handle it's present load. The first blackout will leave millions stranded in places where they will be in peril and create traffic jams never experienced in this Country. Can you envision I-10 (The heaviest traveled road in America) through LA littered with stranded EV's? It would shut down LA. Your electric bill could be as significant as your mortgage payment.

(2) Where and how is the government (or the Car Industry) going to safely store those billions, and billions of dead EV batteries?

(3) How will that "Electric Airplane" be capable of flying you to Europe, Hawaii or other distant Countries? What happens when that charge runs out?, or the plane is hit by lightning causing an electrical short circuit, WHAT an "Early landing" like in the middle of an ocean ????

(4) Imaging the traffic congestion surrounding electric vehicle charging stations and the load it will place on a "local remote" grid?

(5) Unless re-charging an EV takes less than a few minutes highway travel will be very limited. It's one thing to charge your EV at home to run down to the market, it's an entirely issue to have to re-charge the batteries while on the road.

(6) All those electric driven devices found in EV's will significantly reduce the life of the EV batteries making driving distances even shorter. Items like the AC during the Summer, heaters in the Winter, radios, cell phone charging while driving, other electrical powered itms (headlights, turn signals, etc) all contribute to shorter battery charge life.

One last item.

The lithium mining companies failed to mention that the EPA and all the Environmental Groups will be lobbying to limit lithium mining. Add to that all the regulations imposed by Federal, State and Local Governments.

Dumb idea, really dumb!

Bob

Bob, it's a pawn to be used while it's working. When it's not to their advantage it will be dropped like a hot rock. Case in point you ask? It was my body, my choice. Then it's take the jab or else. Now with this latest Roe V Wade flair up we're back to my body, my choice. Doesn't have to be logical or make sense, it just has to have a political advantage.

EV’s are being pushed on us and will only cause more havoc, pollution which the Democrats could care less about.

EV's have NO place in our economy now or ever.

Yes, certain people that don't go anywhere can use them.
But it's user specific like having a truck, or a mini van, if you need one of those that's what you'll be driving.
How in the HE LL are people going to charge their cars in the cities, apartment buildings won't have enough charging stations, landlords sure as HE LL won't install charging stations.

Also, what about taking a 1000 mile trip (like the snow birds), it will take you a week to get where you're going. Drive for 4-5 hours, go charge batteries for 8 - 10, and repeat several times.
What about over the road trucks and trains, it will take them a month to cross the country.
You think we have supply chain issues now, just wait.

And as was said, what's going to happen when the state has electric black outs in your area, I guess you're sleeping at work or if your lucky enough to be home you stay home and take a vacation day for nothing since you can't get on your computer to work.

This is all pie in the sky BS so they can cater to the "Greenies".
It will take them decades just to rebuild the power grid, then the question becomes, "who's going to pay for the upgrades", you know it will be the public in their electric bills.

Anybody that buys an electric car just drank the kool-aid.
Even with diesel at $10.00 I wouldn't even consider an EV.

The Chinese already have the charging situation sorted out. The company NIO has battery swap stations. The car auto parks in the station, the bottom opens up and the machine swaps the battery. The swap takes 3 mins to complete.

You rent the battery instead of buying it with the car. The price of the car is cheaper and they have different size batteries for those who drive longer and shorter ranges. It's a pretty sweeet idea and they are already doing it in China and Europe.

Just a matter of time until Musk and Tesla come up with something similar. They better hurry though, as Nio will be selling cars in the states before 2025.

Scroll down about halfway on the page and click watch the video.
https://www.nio.com/nio-power

Right on point.... No rocket scientist here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sytWLB4-W-M

I am not a fan of electric cars at all & I am not pushing them, but I always laugh at you guys who say "there is NO WAY they will ever replace internal combustion". Sure, maybe not right now.....
There was a time not too long ago when people said "the automobile is neat, but it's just a folly - there is NO WAY it can ever beat a trusty horse for dependable, everyday transportation". Those people also couldn't imagine a network of paved roads, reliable & comfortable vehicles and a gas station on every corner. Twenty years ago it was unthinkable that you could get in an electric car and drive 200-300 miles like you can today. EV's may not ever completely replace internal combustion vehicles but if you think it's impossible that they COULD or will never get to the point that they at least outnumber internal combustion then you aren't paying attention to history. I'm not saying it will happen soon, in the next year or even the next decade, but the technology & supporting infrastructure will continually improve and make the electric cars current shortcomings less & less. There were people who said Top Fuel cars had reached their limit when they broke the 200mph barrier and there was no possible way they could go much faster. The commissioner of the patent office in the late 1800's suggested we close the patent office because there was nothing left to invent! You don't have to like it, but for a group of older, experienced & mechanically-savvy guys you have short memories!

Don't worry guys. With every news show telling the world that our grid is in shyt shape a ripe for a terrorist attack, it will be blown up before they build enough cars to tax it too much.

Dumbest shyt I have ever seen tell those who want to destroy the US the easiest way to do it. Not that they do not already know, but why the hell would you tell them over and over?