Originally posted by Mike Rietow: The only way a house car is a wrong based on the laws of the universe, is if the house tilts the table in favor of the house car.
In that case it is theft. Theft is wrong.
I totally disagree with that statement. When I line up at any of the Big Bucks races especially the Million dollar races, that's MY money. There is going to be some added pressure there. If your a house car with entry paid and doubled you can set up .003 and not give a damn.
So you're saying Rambo, Glidden, WJ, Force won more money drag racing than anyone else, because they had less pressure on them, because sponsorships paid their way?
Totally different ball game. They have sponsors and they need to perform to keep those sponsors. The sponsors were not getting kick backs from races won, their ROI is from the advertising.
House cars get free entries and race without any pressure and give a portion of the money back to the race promoter.
If you think SFG is gonna throw money out the window on you, without a return, you got another thing coming.
Same as Rambo, Glidden, Force, WJ.
80% of the times I've shown up at the track, I used my last dollar for entry. Never bothered me any, because I wanted 100% of the winnings.
December 09, 2020, 10:23 AM
Mike Rietow
This is how we ended up with all these nit wit liberal laws in this country.
This is what has FK'D this country, people giving up their rights so easily.
The only wrong that ever existed in reality, according to the Evidence includes theft.
For the better good, is communism.
December 09, 2020, 11:20 AM
TORQIN
quote:
Originally posted by Phil Dees: If I owe the promoter money, and the only way he will be paid is if I win, am I a house car?
NO SIR in this case you would be a gambler.
December 09, 2020, 11:39 AM
Mad Dog
If you OWE the promoter money then you are in debt to them, it's simple. IF your "agreement" with the promoter is: payment due upon win (evidently whenever?), then the promoter (for reasons beyond any reasonable explanation) is extending a level of credit to you for reasons you have yet to disclose...
Dan
DOES YOUR IDEOLOGY ALLOW YOU TO EQUITABLY APPLY STANDARDS OF ACCOUNTABILITY OR DOES IT PROMOTE THE PRACTICE OF HYPOCRISY?
December 09, 2020, 11:44 AM
DragRaceResults
I would consider a house car as follows.
Any racer who is allowed to race a race or weekend event in either the promoters own car where the entry fee or vehicle is paid for by the promoter.
Any racer who is allowed to race a race or weekend event in where the entry fee is paid for or where an entry fee payment agreement is agreed upon to be paid out of the winnings.
Any racer who is allowed to race a race or weekend event whether in their own car, someone else's car or the promoters car and is compensated entry fees in return for any portion of winnings.
I just don't think House Cars are a good idea for perception of integrity. Never had any in our own DRR Series races. I've had this conversation with MANY promoters over the years whether I trust or don't trust them.
Originally posted by DragRaceResults: I would consider a house car as follows.
Any racer who is allowed to race a race or weekend event in either the promoters own car where the entry fee or vehicle is paid for by the promoter.
Any racer who is allowed to race a race or weekend event in where the entry fee is paid for or where an entry fee payment agreement is agreed upon to be paid out of the winnings.
Any racer who is allowed to race a race or weekend event whether in their own car, someone else's car or the promoters car and is compensated entry fees in return for any portion of winnings.
I just don't think House Cars are a good idea for perception of integrity. Never had any in our own DRR Series races. I've had this conversation with MANY promoters over the years whether I trust or don't trust them.
SL...
Other than a make believe story to put a house car back in a race 45 minutes after it is eliminated from competition, or similar scenario where the house car is reinstated in a race after losing, how can a promoter tilt the table in favor of a house car?
I mean are we talking the timing equipment parameter can be altered, to decide a winner?
Integrity is contained within people, not an idea of integrity, no?
To protect the integrity of drag racing competition, no one is above the law, no?.
December 09, 2020, 12:32 PM
pauley
if it is this difficult to understand chances are you will never be a house car.
ep-if i were a promoter i would ask my buddies to be house cars. but they all suck so what would be the point.
people like whomper, 1290, torq,(not torq's kid), etc.
December 09, 2020, 12:42 PM
Mike Rietow
This is how all these nit wit liberal laws which have destroyed freedom came to be.
Integrity is within individuals, it's not an idea or a fuzzy feeling.
To protect the integrity of drag racing competition is simple. It's rule of law.
No one is above the law, everyone is held accountable according to Evidence - democracy.
Neo-liberalism profits are the better good.
December 09, 2020, 12:54 PM
Tom R
Lets break this down. For the promoter to cheat (ie. theft as Mike puts it) they would have to have their own people running the timing system and be able to manipulate the outcome of a race. (false win lights, false red lights, bogus ladder, etc) Aren't most of these big money races track rentals using track employees? There would have to be collusion between the track and promoter in order for any "theft" to take place.
The perception to most racers is a true house car "could" be cheating the other racers out of their share of the purse. They have nothing invested, no pressure and nothing to lose.
Why would a promoter even put them self in this position?
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the writer and do not reflect the views or opinions of any entity other than myself.
72 Nova 370 ci (Stealth Black)
December 09, 2020, 12:57 PM
Mike Rietow
Bottom line house cars are not a problem, holding tracks, promoters, sponsors accountable based on evidence, is the problem.
You want as many cars in the race, as you can get in the race.
December 09, 2020, 01:05 PM
Tom396
If I agree to give 90%+ of my winnings to whoever pays my entry fee, could I get anybody to make that deal with me at one of these "big" events? Operators are standing by. Take care. Tom Worthington
If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
December 09, 2020, 02:30 PM
The Bozman
Something happens with the timing system and the house car loses. Rerun
If the house car wins, no re-run.
If it helps get to an uneven car count then put both back into next round.
Looking at the amount of racers entered after buy backs and say " we are putting another racer back into the 5th round. Lottery !!!
The above are all items that have nothing to do with anyone but the promoter based on the rule "Promoters decisions are final".
Just giving examples of where the promoter could tilt without anyone else being involved.
Keeping the Socialists and NEO-LIBERALS at bay with FACTS one post at a time !!!
Freedom isn't free !!! Thank a veteran, they will actually appreciate it.
December 09, 2020, 03:02 PM
Mike Rietow
quote:
Originally posted by The Bozman: Something happens with the timing system and the house car loses. Rerun
If the house car wins, no re-run.
If it helps get to an uneven car count then put both back into next round.
Looking at the amount of racers entered after buy backs and say " we are putting another racer back into the 5th round. Lottery !!!
The above are all items that have nothing to do with anyone but the promoter based on the rule "Promoters decisions are final".
Just giving examples of where the promoter could tilt without anyone else being involved.
Those are integrity problems not specific to house cars, you can have track officials servicing race sponsorship or even friendships.
It's up to the racers to police cronyism, by holding officials accountable on the spot.
When the racers fear the track officials there is tyranny, when the track officials fear the racers there is freedom.
What you don't wanna do is make rights subjective (opinions).This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,
December 09, 2020, 03:39 PM
Mike Rietow
We need a department of common sense.
December 09, 2020, 03:45 PM
Phil Dees
Tom, entry fee and BUYBACKS?
December 09, 2020, 04:01 PM
Phil Dees
Scott, we pretty much think of house cars the same way.
December 09, 2020, 05:02 PM
Mike Rietow
Just what we need more rules, when the rules we already have, aren't enforced.
Take away rights, that'll fix it!
December 09, 2020, 05:17 PM
Tom396
quote:
Originally posted by Phil Dees: Tom, entry fee and BUYBACKS?
That makes the deal even sweeter, since I never ever b*yback. Take care. Tom Worthington
If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
December 10, 2020, 10:38 AM
Mike Rietow
The only real problem with house cars, is the same problem we have in society. Fat cats who produce nothing profiting off production of the labor of those, who do produce something.
The house car itself is just another car in the race.
Operators are standing by. Take care. Tom Worthington