DragRaceResults.Com    Bracket Talk    Bracket Talk Forum  Hop To Forum Categories  General Discussion - by FTI    Can the current musclecar war continue indefinitely?
Page 1 2 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Can the current musclecar war continue indefinitely?
 Login/Join
 
DRR Pro
posted
I think it is fair to say there is a modern musclecar war going on today between Chevrolet, Ford, and Chrysler. These are (for the most part) 2 door coupes. They are very highly priced, relatively speaking. They make much lower performing versions of the same vehicles that they actually sell a lot more of. They aren't bad for fuel mileage, but don't come anywhere close to the mileage their more fuel efficient models do. I think they are a bit more costly to insure. And frankly, they are incredibly quick.

These are much the same things that could be said about the American musclecars from around 1964 to about 1974. But not long after that, musclecars were pretty well neutered for a long time. What caused that, I believe, is still a little bit open to debate. Some say it was the Fuel Embargo that made folks much less interested in buying cars that sucked down fuel. Some say it was the new emission regulations that forced the manufacturers to dial back the power. Some say it was the car insurance companies that didn't want to underwrite the liability these beasts created. And then some say it was a perfect storm of all these factors combined and even a few more.

Can the current version of this war continue unabated? It has already lived longer than the last one. It's 2019 now, and we have had some pretty quick stuff, available straight from the showroom floor, available a lot further back than 2009. And doesn't this fly in the face of the theory that Americans no longer lust after ultra high performance in their showroom offerings? The manufacturers sure wouldn't put the effort into making them, if they didn't help profits. Please discuss. Take care. Tom Worthington


If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
 
Posts: 1217 | Location: Rocky Mount, NC | Registered: December 01, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
posted Hide Post
Gas is under $2 a gallon so it will continue for a long time. Trump has 6 more years to go after that we will see.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 3918 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Some say it was the new emission regulations....

This was the primary reason but all you mentioned were players. With insurance being minor in my opinion. Primarily it was the advent of unleaded gasoline. They outlawed the octane booster lead and that killed the compression ratio necessary for performance in those days. Non-digital accuracy and a slew of mechanical band-aids weren't flexible enough to achieve regulations and performance. I lived through it and believe that was the facts of the matter. But people being what they are others will have differing opinions. I was forced to sell my '68 427 cu/435 hp corvette while it still had some value. Ask me why I don't like tree huggers! Although emission controls were necessary. I've been to 3rd world countries and it's unbearable.


Illegitimi non carborundum
 
Posts: 2318 | Location: OKC, OK | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
I bought my first "muscle" car with money I made bagging groceries and delivering papers. That 65 GTO out in my garage that I bought new didn't even cost $3000. So just who has the money for these current "muscle" cars priced at how much????? EPA has been neutered, insurance is high on a VW, and gas is cheap.
 
Posts: 6164 | Location: everywhere | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
as long as people keep buying them, it will continue. There are collectors, and then there's rich folks, and finally rich collectors. They'll keep the market going until the money runs out.

Talk about expensive-I looked at new pickup trucks today.....needless to say I'm keeping mine until the wheels fall off and even then it's likely that I'll try to fix it with some more baling wire and string.
 
Posts: 540 | Location: central Ar | Registered: June 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
Pickup trucks---I bought a new F350 in 1985 for $24,000, 1993 $32,000, 1999 $42,000, 2005 $54,000, last time I priced one they said $79,000. Guess my 2005 might be my last one.
 
Posts: 6164 | Location: everywhere | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
In short Tom, no. Insane HP, insane prices! Now they are ramping up trucks and SUV specs steering away from sedans. Cadillac now has an EV and it’s bad a z z . XT6 I believe, 300 mile range.. How long can the bubble continue?

Tom, did you find big block parts?


Raceless in California!
 
Posts: 4428 | Location: Vacaville  | Registered: January 07, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by stk 758 BP!:
In short Tom, no. Insane HP, insane prices! Now they are ramping up trucks and SUV specs steering away from sedans. Cadillac now has an EV and it’s bad a z z . XT6 I believe, 300 mile range.. How long can the bubble continue?

Tom, did you find big block parts?


No, I haven't. Seems like most of the 396 stuff out there is only being marketed to the "numbers matching" crowd and is priced accordingly. I am in no special hurry, though. I'm not going to buy anything until I think I have found a great deal. Take care. Tom Worthington


If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
 
Posts: 1217 | Location: Rocky Mount, NC | Registered: December 01, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of "The Bender"
posted Hide Post
If I wasn't racing, I'd have a Challenger with a Hemi, and maybe a supercharger...….JS


272" Spitzer
540 Chevy
The Blower Shop XR1
FTI XPM Series Converter
FTI Level 6 Powerglide
3.69@199
.916 60'

2017 Bradenton Heads Up Madness
Open Outlaw Champ

2018 PDRA T/D #5
2019 PDRA T/D #2

2020 Retired From T/D Competition....

2020 Bradenton NMCA Hemi Shootout Winner

2021 getting back into bracket racing with a Gen3 Hemi powered 87 Cutlass.
 
Posts: 3088 | Location: Yes | Registered: July 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of David Covey
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by "The Bender":
If I wasn't racing, I'd have a Challenger with a Hemi, and maybe a supercharger...….JS


THIS^^^^

The wife was even liking the idea of having one.. That came out of left field..lol

Dave


"It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance." -Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 3290 | Location: American By Birth Texan By The Grace Of God  | Registered: April 29, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
Hey Tom, what parts are you looking, i know someone here in Wayne County that has a few items.


HR901
 
Posts: 19 | Location: Goldsboro, NC | Registered: July 31, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
I don't think the modern muscle cars make the mfg much, if any profit, just gives them bragging rights and promotes the brand. Some are so quick they won't even pass XHRA safety reqmnts.
Cadillac CTS-V 640 hp, 8 speeds, 11 sec. 1/4, bone stock! I have an earlier model with "only" 556 hp and 6 speeds and even it's in the 12's at 9,000 DA on rock hard road tires.
These new muscle cars are superior to the originals by any measure except coolness and maybe price.
 
Posts: 606 | Location: Lakewood, Co. | Registered: January 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
These new muscle cars are superior to the originals by any measure except coolness and maybe price.

At least the old ones were tune-able, by the individual, thus making your car faster than someone else's with less ability. Now if you got the cash you're the winner.


Illegitimi non carborundum
 
Posts: 2318 | Location: OKC, OK | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Canted Valve:
quote:
These new muscle cars are superior to the originals by any measure except coolness and maybe price.

At least the old ones were tune-able, by the individual, thus making your car faster than someone else's with less ability. Now if you got the cash you're the winner.

The new ones are tuned with a laptop and a chip while you're wearing a coat and tie if you want.
 
Posts: 606 | Location: Lakewood, Co. | Registered: January 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
I just don't get excited by the looks of the new Musclecars. They do not seem to have any soul. But then again ,if it was up to me they would still be making 55-57 Chevys.
 
Posts: 30 | Location: Southwest IOWA | Registered: March 19, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TomR
posted Hide Post
The new musclecars were designed for the same people who bought the old ones. Once they stop buying them they will disappear and we will be stuck driving hybrids and electric cars.


72 Nova "Hooptie"
 
Posts: 728 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: June 20, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SS427IMP:
quote:
Originally posted by Canted Valve:
quote:
These new muscle cars are superior to the originals by any measure except coolness and maybe price.

At least the old ones were tune-able, by the individual, thus making your car faster than someone else's with less ability. Now if you got the cash you're the winner.

The new ones are tuned with a laptop and a chip while you're wearing a coat and tie if you want.


It is an entirely different skill set for sure.
The nice things about the new muscle cars is how refined they are. They start nicely. They don't idle rich and stinky. They are reliable enough to drive daily. They get decent mileage. The handle well. The muscle cars of yesteryear were lucky to punch even one of those boxes.
But frankly, MOST cars today are much better all around including performance than the old muscle cars. You hop into a plain wrapper Impala with a V6 today, and you are driving a roomy/comfortable car that just happens to have over 300 wheel horsepower. And your grandmother can drive it. Even my Yukon has 400 hp from the factory. yes my family loves old cars and we are building some old trucks to have fun in. But we are realistic about the everyday capabilities and our current expectations of reliability for a daily driver. Can you build an old daily driver that kicks butt in all categories and is reliable? Of course. But it may cost you as much or more than a modern factory hot rod.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6319 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Eman
posted Hide Post
Everything runs a cycle so we'll see how long the demand lasts.
The same thing that killed the musclecars of yesterday is what created the musclecars of today. The old musclecars of yesterday were really not fast considering how large the motors were and looking at timeslips from back then proves it. They were extremely crude as were all new cars of the time. The pollution laws and insurance companies killed them. But given time and advances in technology cleaning up internal combustion engines they found performance. You now have a musclecar that's not only much faster with a smaller engine it's efficient and comfortable. Steering and stopping that early cars didn't come close to.
 
Posts: 1443 | Location: E TN | Registered: February 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
posted Hide Post
The new cars performance or not are amazing. They run better, corner better, stop better, better mileage and still have nice radios and air conditioning. Not only that the new ones last much better. In the 60's you were lucky to have one last 100,000 miles now they run for that long with nothing but oil changes and gas and we expect for them all to last 250,000 or more. The new cars are quieter and more comfortable.
We do not like the electronic injection and computer tuning on these cars but fact is that is why they start up perfectly in cold weather and last better. That computer pulls out timing when you have cheap gas so it is not detonating and hurting motor.

The new cars are nice, as for the muscle car thing it will last as long as economy is real good and gas is cheap. And it will never completely die anyway.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 3918 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
[ That computer pulls out timing when you have cheap gas so it is not detonating and hurting motor.

.[/QUOTE]
Also pulls out timing when engine is at operating temp so these things are impossible to bracket race if you are going rounds.
 
Posts: 606 | Location: Lakewood, Co. | Registered: January 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

DragRaceResults.Com    Bracket Talk    Bracket Talk Forum  Hop To Forum Categories  General Discussion - by FTI    Can the current musclecar war continue indefinitely?

© DragRaceResults.com 2024