It seems that tracks are going to have to figure out how to thrive in the day of money races. HAVING them is a good start. And also trying to cooperate with other local tracks and not scheduling over fairly regional big money races. When you make a racer choose between going to a race he really is interested in, and running your points race, you may very well make that racer lose interest in your points program. Our jr program is doing better than expected this year. But, sure enough they have a points race scheduled on a day when there is a Midwest jr series race just up the road. Everyone wants to go to the midwest race and they are very popular for various reasons. Why not drop the jr points for that day and cooperate and not stick the racers in a position of choosing? Make up that points race some other time.

Our local track has started a mud bog racing deal on part of the property. It's great to see them keep the property utilized more fully and more often. Diversifying is a good thing.

Local bracket racing is middle class drag racing. in 2004 when Cheney was saying deficits don't matter and they were handing out houses to anyone with a pulse in the midst of offshoring the economy to china, money was easy via second mortgages because credit was expanded to replace the income of Americans lost to offshoring jobs to china, 100k houses were overvalued to 250k. We'd have 100 cars every Friday night in Super Pro at Sunshine. When we showed up at Carolina Dragstrip for bracket finals there were over 220 cars in Super Pro alone. Place was packed in with 21 tracks.

Sunshine can't pull in more than 25 Super Pro cars for a race, once a month today.

There's been no real economy in this country for 20 years. Sept 2001 is when the WTO trade deal was signed with china and the offshoring of the American economy began.

Kill the middle class, you also kill local bracket racing.

Oh BTW when we got down to 16 cars at Carolina Dragway 2004 bracket finals, all 16 cars left in the race were from Sunshine or Bradenton. Sunshine Dragstrip dismantled Div 2 IHRA as team champions.

Local bracket racing is in DEEP trouble with the storm that is coming. Trust me I've been prepping for this storm since the day Dik Cheney said deficits don't matter. DEEP TROUBLE, I wouldn't wanna own a drag strip right about now at any low low price $$$.

Trump has put $$6.3 trillion on the deficit in a little over 3 years. The dollar is in DEEP trouble. Buy gold and silver.

Mike without all the pictures and catchy memes and videos you make sense.....and you're right about most of what you just said.

You forgot to mention the car culture types that grew up with drag racing when it was more affordable are dying off or aged out. Like myself.....

Costs are rediculous......I paid $100 for 5 gallons of C-16 race fuel at the track and that's just ludicrous to me....It was $85 last year and at another track for Sunoco Red...

Some other tracks sell fuel much lower and buying drums is the best option but not always easy...

The track I was at is obviously trying to make every dollar they can off racers and I can't blame them but the costs have skyrocketed for most everything.

Even in good times years ago it was not cheap to race but today it's off the chart to me.....and I was not the only one complaining about the fuel price where I was racing...

Add in the many other costs and people just plain quit....or are very selective about where and when they race....

quote:

Originally posted by SCDIV1:
Mike without all the pictures and catchy memes and videos you make sense.....and you're right about most of what you just said.

You forgot to mention the car culture types that grew up with drag racing when it was more affordable are dying off or aged out. Like myself.....

Costs are rediculous......I paid $100 for 5 gallons of C-16 race fuel at the track and that's just ludicrous to me....It was $85 last year and at another track for Sunoco Red...

Some other tracks sell fuel much lower and buying drums is the best option but not always easy...

The track I was at is obviously trying to make every dollar they can off racers and I can't blame them but the costs have skyrocketed for most everything.

Even in good times years ago it was not cheap to race but today it's off the chart to me.....and I was not the only one complaining about the fuel price where I was racing...

Add in the many other costs and people just plain quit....or are very selective about where and when they race....

It's not that costs of anything have gone up, it's that the dollar has lost purchasing power. That's why the $7 trillion in bailouts of multi-national corporations and the 1% in the last several months, is a real problem for the people.

This is the second time in ten years, these people have bailed themselves out at the expense of we the people.

As far as the kids go, the credit has been expanded (student loan programs) in order to ship them off to summer camp (college) to keep them busy because the baby boomers have assumed the retail sales clerk jobs the kids used to work.

The US economy was offshored to china and America was turned into one big shopping mall for consumer drone Americans to buy chinese garbage using credit cards that'll never be paid down to a zero balance.

Rich, you are old enough to know that racing was always expensive at the competitive level. The #1 issue in this country facing all forms of racing whether it be participation or spectators is we no longer have a car culture. Back in the day, everything in a young man's life revolved around his car. Today nothing revolves around his car if he even has a car.

As to your fuel costs, you are not a victim, you are a willing participant. You chose to run VP which is substantially more expensive than Sunoco and to make matters worse you choose one of their more expensive fuels which is also not intended for your application, why?

C16 = for use in turbocharged engines, supercharged engines and nitrous applications with CRs up to 17:1.

FYI, both my engines run Sunoco Blue aka Supreme and have for many years. The dragster's engine is 15.6:1 and makes 1100HP and the Firebird's engine is 14.4:1 and makes 930HP

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1320racer,

quote:

Originally posted by 1320racer:
The #1 issue in this country facing all forms of racing whether it be participation or spectators is we no longer have a car culture.

Nailed it, Ed
It’s so bad (for me), I sold my 1970 SS 454 Chevelle last year. Even owning a classic mussel car became a bore. Few understand it or appreciate what it is.
Only at car shows did it draw appreciation but car shows become so boring.

Lack of new blood coming into sportsman racing is an issue. Most young people that race come from families that compete in sportsman racing.

There is a huge car and truck culture that's thriving right now but for the most part haven't been marketed to correctly.

Street Car Takeover events are doing the best job so far offering index classes and small tire heads up racing for these enthusiasts.
There are tons of potential racers out there that just haven't been presented with a class that appeals to them.

In Texas you can't drive anywhere without seeing a
New gen muscle car or truck that's been modified to some extent. Hell I see drag radials on vehicles daily!

Paul, Unfortunately all true.

I stopped going to the local cruise meets/car shows many years ago, nothing but old men rubbing on their old cars, talking about what was decades ago and god forbid a young kid shows up with a modern car or worse yet an import. They do everything possible to let him know he's not welcome in their old man's club.

That said, I myself have been long over the old muscle cars. I'd take a new muscle car over any of them all day long.

Just my .02, take it for what it's worth.

When I started racing in 1991, it used to be $20 entry for Heavy and $500 to win. Back then the lanes were full and we could barely get a race completed before curfew. Then in 1993ish I switched to Super Pro with a $40-50 entry and $1000 to win. We would travel from our home track and go to $5k races from Atco to VMP. They were always packed and we had a ton of fun at them. We used to go to Moroso to race for $7500. Gas for the tow vehicle was under $1.00 a gal, alcohol was $100 a drum and food/hotels were cheap too.

As the purse and racing costs went up, more and more racers found something else to do.

Not everyone needs to race for $5k minimum every weekend. Sure, its nice when you strike one but lets be realistic, most racers never see a winners circle let alone a final round appearance. They are racing with money they don't have and hoping to break even with round money. I'm sure no one here will admit to it but those are the facts.

I am low buck, anyone who knows me or my car can see that. I love to compete and work on my car every week to bring the best I can afford to the track. I love beating up on $50-100k race cars with my hooptie Nova and have won quite a few races over the years at many tracks with it.

Now, a select few wants $100k races and all the expenses to race them are way too high for people like me. Not to mention having buybacks when there are 500+ cars on the property. (The same 500 at every big race for the most part) The perception is "Everyone is chasing the big bucks" but there are far more (in my opinion) who could care less and just want a local weekly program to go to. The local racer who just wants to tinker with cars and go have fun has been kicked to the curb and forgotten about. Sure we can blame lack of new participants on the non-car culture but who's fault is that? I blame the parents for not getting their kids involved to begin with.

Anyway, back to the OP. The last few years our local track kept on increasing the purse. He drove out the local racers to entice people to drive past their home tracks and go to his. People were coming from all around for $3-5k purse every weekend but it was not sustainable and car counts started to dwindle so he increased the purse again and brought in more outsiders while driving away his core racers who supported the track for many years. Many were forced to find new tracks to call home. I was one of them since I couldn't afford the weekly program with double buy-backs to boot.

Now, our home track is gone in 2020. The owners decided not to re-new the lease with the operator and we no longer have a track in our back yard. No one knows why they decided not to re-new so I can't point fingers or blame anyone/anything for it.

I have found myself taking the car apart lately and using it as an excuse not to race the past few years. Hell, when covid struck this year I ordered quarter panels and cut the back half of the car off. It's a shame, I have to lie to myself so I don't feel bad for staying home instead of racing.

(Waiting for someone to tell me I'm in over my head, too old, too stupid or I should just go to test n tunes where I belong)

You all have decent points.

The only reason you old men think we no longer have a car culture is because young people are not interested in YOUR cars. Modern cars make "muscle" cars look pitiful. Affordable V-8 power for younger people is now P/U and SUV's.

Modern muscle cars make 60s/70s muscle cars look pitful. Old men talk about these old relics as the good old days when infact, today's muscle cars out perform those over priced rust buckets by leaps and bounds in every way.

That's exactly right. I have talked to numerous Silverado, F150, & Ram truck owners on a Friday night with more money tied into their trucks than in my ****box chevelle.

These guys race once a year in a 12.00 n 13.00 index class for trucks only.

Same damn thing for the new muscle car owners who run in the 12 and 11.00 index classes at Street Car Takeover events.

There are very few options for these guys n girls to compete at PREPPED 1/4 Mile events where their street cars and truck shine. 1/8 mile isn't fun for those vehicles.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1320racer:
Rich, you are old enough to know that racing was always expensive at the competitive level. The #1 issue in this country facing all forms of racing whether it be participation or spectators is we no longer have a car culture. Back in the day, everything in a young man's life revolved around his car. Today nothing revolves around his car if he even has a car.

As to your fuel costs, you are not a victim, you are a willing participant. You chose to run VP which is substantially more expensive than Sunoco and to make matters worse you choose one of their more expensive fuels which is also not intended for your application, why?

C16 = for use in turbocharged engines, supercharged engines and nitrous applications with CRs up to 17:1.

FYI, both my engines run Sunoco Blue aka Supreme and have for many years. The dragster's engine is 15.6:1 and makes 1100HP and the Firebird's engine is 14.4:1 and makes 930HP[/QUOTE

Sunoco Not available.....Bought C-16 strictly on Octane numbers and it's comparable to Sunoco Maximal and runs fine regardless of what they might say its intended use is. They only say that because the Octane rating is very high and will be much less likely to detonate in those applications. C-14 was the same price $100 for 5 gal cans....


Sunoco Red, VP X-16 would be my preferred fuels but not available at the track. I would have bought a drum or two if the year had not gone in the dumper early on...

I've been meaning to try Sunoco Blue but just have not.....

Racing was always expensive and that's true but nowhere near where it is today on a relative basis.

You can afford it and so can I but it flat out rubs me wrong to pay that for fuel....

All the posts about old men and old muscle cars I agree with and am old.....pretty snappy though for an old geezer.....

I hate car shows and the remember when BS...

I worked on those S-H-I-T boxes when they were new and they were fun but mostly junk to me....

I do enjoy watching Stock and SS cars at he track but they are a long way from a "Stock" car...

Modern muscle cars are far more sophisticated, drivable....and faster by a mile...

Import stuff is alive for sure, drifting and road course racing is alive at Etown and drag racing is dead.....

Everyone here has made excellent points. 15years ago I stated, on this forum, that unless the HRA's changed their business model that we would be exactly where we are today. Todays youth are not the car crazy culture I enjoyed in my younger days going up in Miami. After college I was moved around the country (job and corporate ladder climbing) and enjoyed the racing scene in various parts of this great country. My last number of years was in and around the mid-west. Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio, etc. The sportsman scene was very strong and when I retired and relocated to the Treasure Coast of Florida it was still very strong. My 'home' track was Ohio Valley. A very well run/operated 1/8 mile track. During the last 10 years or so I saw a steady increase in import cars which bolstered my opinion of the metamorphose that was taking place in the drag racing world. Two years ago upon my relocation to south Florida I took my SuperComp rail to PBIR on a Friday night test&tune. I was the only open wheel race car at the track, man was that a shock. What I did notice was the number of quality import, tuners and such. Even though I was shocked at the mix of cars I came away feeling, again, that I was correct. Went to Orlando Speed World a few weeks later and also saw a strong import scene. DRAG RACING IS NOT DEAD OR DYING, ITS CHANGING. Lately its taken a beating in certain areas of the country, i.e. the North East, California, etc.

Addressing the cost of racing. I sold the S/C 18 months ago and begun to build a SuperStreet/Bracket car. At the beginning of the build I swore I would only buy American manufactured parts. I have not knowingly bought any Chinese shoitt but here is what I have noticed, its d a m n e d expensive going that route, not sorry but it does cost a lot more $$$$$$$. Fortunately I can afford it but how many young folks can? I've made my bones and have noting to prove ( except that a retired 71 year old **** can still race). Maybe.

Another point is new blood. What I have seen is a tremendous age gap in the young racers and us old guys. There does not seem to be a lot of middle age folks in the sport. Worrisome. My last point is track management. If you look at successful tracks they have great management, i.e. Ohio Valley, US 60, Beech Bend, Music City, KilKare, etc. Food for thought and argument.

I think in today’s dollars, a late model hot rod is way more expensive than a new one back in the day. Wages have not proportional stayed up.
Even with financing, buying a late model hot rod, (with your money), is for the few. But, not that long ago the 5.0 mustang in the late 80’s early 90’s, was a tremendous deal. Considered by most the ‘57 Chevy of our time. That’s exactly how I got addicted again, after years of nothing.

Rich, the #1 reason why I run Sunoco fuel is that it's readily available at every Division 1 track we race except Cecil and Lebanon.

That said, I've got lots of blue if you can't find it and want to try it.

Oh and I'm old too.

adv ET, my addiction never left since my first trip down the old Masters Field in 1963 (only 14 at the time). In 1966 made my first 1/4 blast in Joe Shieks c/d at of all places PBIR. Been hooked ever since, ask my ex's.

quote:

Originally posted by 1320racer:
Rich, the #1 reason why I run Sunoco fuel is that it's readily available at every Division 1 track we race except Cecil and Lebanon.

That said, I've got lots of blue if you can't find it and want to try it.

Oh and I'm old too.

Ed thanks and since the Blue has worked for you I will buy some and try it....I'm sure it will be fine....

If I was at MG or Numidia where they sell it reasonably priced I'd bring extra cans and fill them. Island sells 5 gal cans only.....Atco forgetaboutit....VP only and other than X-16 I dislike their fuels...

I did buy a lot of fuel from Jeff Stricker back when I raced more often and hit a lot of the Division races both X-16 and Q-15.....horrible obnoxious fumes from that stuff but it makes more power...

The X-16 was a very good fuel and reasonable. It went up and nobody ever has it....

I've been considering going back to a methanol carb and have one....Very easy to get Alky drums delivered....

You may consider yourself old but not many people can keep up with what you and your son do.....way to ambitious for my old self....even years ago....