quote:

Originally posted by Hotrod Corvette:
Sounds like lot of people just can't waste any time at the race track without being a Karen about it...what is the big hurry...you got to get home and mow the lawn or something???

Oh by the way...Racing IS a game, and not a production line.

This is more about getting 600 cars down track at big money races each day than just taking too long at a regular bracket race. JMO

quote:

Originally posted by racerdude2054:

quote:

Originally posted by WHOMPWHOMP:
They need one in the pits…

Open time runs, lanes close at time “x” and enforce it…. Instead of begging people to come
To the lanes for 45 minutes

I believe it was Mike Fuqua when he was promoting that had the best system for time runs Ive ever seen.

Open time runs until 1pm. If you were the next pair after 1pm you put a dial in on and raced.

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:

quote:

Originally posted by Hotrod Corvette:
Sounds like lot of people just can't waste any time at the race track without being a Karen about it...what is the big hurry...you got to get home and mow the lawn or something???

Oh by the way...Racing IS a game, and not a production line.

This is more about getting 600 cars down track at big money races each day than just taking too long at a regular bracket race. JMO

And that brings the circle right back to where I say it's incumbent upon the promoters to choose locations that can handle the car count, or limit the entries to a manageable number, and structure the entry / payout accordingly.

120-130 cars down the track per hour, if efficient, and no major cleanup.

It's not rocket science folks.

I received this from Luke Bogacki today and thought I'd post his opinion.........

Since Jed and I are no longer recording the Sportsman Drag Racing Podcast on a regular basis, I'm not sure where else to fire off opinions... And I've got opinions!
While I'm not entirely opposed to this idea, I don't think it's going to "save" bracket racing. In fact, I don't believe it'll be all that impactful at all in its current form: 60 seconds is a LONG time - the percentage of racers that this legitimately impacts (and would, in theory, "speed up" is very small.
My biggest takeaway is that this just feels like we're making a big deal out of something that, at least in my opinion, simply isn't a big deal. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been ready to go and actually thought, "Geez, my opponent is taking forever." Maybe I just don't allow myself to get caught up in it, but this isn't really a thing for me.
I can't help but feel that if the goal is actually to speed up the race that there are much more impactful ways to do that on the promoter side. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think this makes a significant impact on the time of the event at the end of the day. For the 10% (or less) racers that this speeds up slightly, I think it's very possible that you'll have an equal amount trying to figure out how to use the clock to their advantage - potentially inducing anxiety from opponents stringing things out to the final 5 seconds or so intentionally (these are racers who would typically stage in 45 seconds or less without the visible clock). I think that, just like anything, there are competitive advantages to be explored within the enforcement of this program, and racers will explore those. In the end, I'm not sure it solves anything and has the potential to create additional headaches. That's my .02 - and I'll be happy to be proven wrong as we see what this actually looks like in practice...

quote:

Originally posted by markemark:
I received this from Luke Bogacki today and thought I'd post his opinion.........

Since Jed and I are no longer recording the Sportsman Drag Racing Podcast on a regular basis, I'm not sure where else to fire off opinions... And I've got opinions!
While I'm not entirely opposed to this idea, I don't think it's going to "save" bracket racing. In fact, I don't believe it'll be all that impactful at all in its current form: 60 seconds is a LONG time - the percentage of racers that this legitimately impacts (and would, in theory, "speed up" is very small.
My biggest takeaway is that this just feels like we're making a big deal out of something that, at least in my opinion, simply isn't a big deal. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been ready to go and actually thought, "Geez, my opponent is taking forever." Maybe I just don't allow myself to get caught up in it, but this isn't really a thing for me.
I can't help but feel that if the goal is actually to speed up the race that there are much more impactful ways to do that on the promoter side. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think this makes a significant impact on the time of the event at the end of the day. For the 10% (or less) racers that this speeds up slightly, I think it's very possible that you'll have an equal amount trying to figure out how to use the clock to their advantage - potentially inducing anxiety from opponents stringing things out to the final 5 seconds or so intentionally (these are racers who would typically stage in 45 seconds or less without the visible clock). I think that, just like anything, there are competitive advantages to be explored within the enforcement of this program, and racers will explore those. In the end, I'm not sure it solves anything and has the potential to create additional headaches. That's my .02 - and I'll be happy to be proven wrong as we see what this actually looks like in practice...

Pretty well-stated.

I think it would work better if the clock were NOT visible to the racers; they just knew they were on some sort of DQ clock that was the same for everyone. It wouldn't work in practice, as delays that should cause a pause in the clock would create a lot of unknowns. Did the clock actually stop there? How much time to we really have? Etc...

quote:

Originally posted by Lenny5160:

quote:

Originally posted by markemark:
I received this from Luke Bogacki today and thought I'd post his opinion.........

Since Jed and I are no longer recording the Sportsman Drag Racing Podcast on a regular basis, I'm not sure where else to fire off opinions... And I've got opinions!
While I'm not entirely opposed to this idea, I don't think it's going to "save" bracket racing. In fact, I don't believe it'll be all that impactful at all in its current form: 60 seconds is a LONG time - the percentage of racers that this legitimately impacts (and would, in theory, "speed up" is very small.
My biggest takeaway is that this just feels like we're making a big deal out of something that, at least in my opinion, simply isn't a big deal. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been ready to go and actually thought, "Geez, my opponent is taking forever." Maybe I just don't allow myself to get caught up in it, but this isn't really a thing for me.
I can't help but feel that if the goal is actually to speed up the race that there are much more impactful ways to do that on the promoter side. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think this makes a significant impact on the time of the event at the end of the day. For the 10% (or less) racers that this speeds up slightly, I think it's very possible that you'll have an equal amount trying to figure out how to use the clock to their advantage - potentially inducing anxiety from opponents stringing things out to the final 5 seconds or so intentionally (these are racers who would typically stage in 45 seconds or less without the visible clock). I think that, just like anything, there are competitive advantages to be explored within the enforcement of this program, and racers will explore those. In the end, I'm not sure it solves anything and has the potential to create additional headaches. That's my .02 - and I'll be happy to be proven wrong as we see what this actually looks like in practice...

Pretty well-stated.

I think it would work better if the clock were NOT visible to the racers; they just knew they were on some sort of DQ clock that was the same for everyone. It wouldn't work in practice, as delays that should cause a pause in the clock would create a lot of unknowns. Did the clock actually stop there? How much time to we really have? Etc...

If you wanted to to work that way you could have a green light for when it was running and a red light for delays when the clock is stopped.

Some tracks racers are the problem, they try to play games and act like world revolves around them. Other tracks it is the track for most part that is a problem.
They wait until all cars are off the track before they let you burn out or even pull into water box and are always waiting on something. Takes forever to get a simple race in even when there are not that many cars. Add in a few idiots that want to play games and an oildown and you have a 24 hour race. There was one really nice track (No longer in business) that would only run a pair of cars down the track every 4 or 5 minutes. They had some that took 15 minutes or so to run. It was crazy. We were all strapped in ready to go and they pulled 2 grudge racers to test. They got out of the car and let air out of their tires must have had a LOT of air it took a very long time. Then they start putting on fire suit and get in start getting strapped in and start warming up the car. Then they pulled up there did a burnout and had several people get them lined up and staged. One had a nitrous explosion and other oiled the starting line...... We told them you can not run cars down the track we will not ever be back. We started time trials that day at noon and by 5:00 we had a racers meeting and said they will not run cars down the track so as soon as everyone gets one time trial we are going into eliminations because it is Saturday and it is supposed to rain on Tuesday and at this rate we will get rained out.

There are some tracks that ran really well. Texas Raceway had a 12:00 Curfew and I think they always made it. When they called you to the lanes you better head that way right then, they called a few times then Larry went down from the tower and if you were not in the staging lanes you were out of the race. Period.
When one pair of cars was staging they had another pair in the burnout box ready to go. When Green light went on and both cars took off they motioned you to do your burnout and did not tolerate silly starting line games. As soon as both cars turned off the track they had you stage and if you would not stage you were out unless they had dial or something wrong.

Most all tracks have a diaper rule but do not know how many enforce it. Seem like most every race someone oils down the track with no diaper or pan. That makes a 5 minute clean up into an hour or two.

The shot clock deal may cut down on some of the silly little games but the track also has to work to get as many cars down the track and get the race in at a decent hour. Not a problem at all tracks but it sure is at a few.

Luke has a great perspective. In my opinion also having been to a majority of promoted big events, and promoted races myself, and I'd say most promoters would say they could do a better job.

The races get drug out due to the race director or promoters not being organized enough, efficient enough by getting drivers moving, the next class into the lanes, the next round back to the lanes, having the water boxes ready. When you say you're starting at 9, don't call cars at 9, the next thing you know it's 9:45 when a car goes down the track and so on. It all adds up.

I'll admit I've never been to one of Jakes races and maybe he doesn't have these issues and it's all slow staging racers, but I sincerely doubt it.

I will say I've only attended a few events that I can say, WOW they had their **** together. But I know how hard it is, it isn't easy.

SL...

As a fella who makes his living finding inefficiencies and eliminating them in all sorts of manufacturing, watching the bottleneck.....the only resource that everyone comes to use and see.....sit idle for more than 50% of the minutes in a day can about drive me crazy. When they call a class up to the lanes 40 minutes early, it also drives me a little nuts.

quote:

Originally posted by DragRaceResults:
Luke has a great perspective. In my opinion also having been to a majority of promoted big events, and promoted races myself, and I'd say most promoters would say they could do a better job.

The races get drug out due to the race director or promoters not being organized enough, efficient enough by getting drivers moving, the next class into the lanes, the next round back to the lanes, having the water boxes ready. When you say you're starting at 9, don't call cars at 9, the next thing you know it's 9:45 when a car goes down the track and so on. It all adds up.

I'll admit I've never been to one of Jakes races and maybe he doesn't have these issues and it's all slow staging racers, but I sincerely doubt it.

I will say I've only attended a few events that I can say, WOW they had their **** together. But I know how hard it is, it isn't easy.

SL...

And this is 100 percent of the problem…let alone promoters letting their buddy’s get away with anything or so called a s s kissing sponors…

Well if they want to speed up the Big $$ races...from watching online...all the time that gets chewed up is mostly between rounds.

I can take a crap and make a nice snack before the next round starts many many times.

Saving seconds is never going to fix that.

BTW Luke is right...You know people are going to play games with the clock...

sounds like stage lock for race promoters

quote:

Well if they want to speed up the Big $$ races...from watching online...all the time that gets chewed up is mostly between rounds.

After 300+ entries went down the track, I believe some track maintenance between rds is a good thing. Sometimes this is what you don’t see going on between rds in a live feed.

Last week I watched SickWeek held at OSW, Bradenton, Gainesville and SGMP. The track prep for bias tires and re-prepping for the radial tire competitors was unbelievable. I would never want to compete on those type of prep surfaces.

Something I didn't see mentioned or I missed it, is the buyback round. From my personal experience & watching online they take a good chunk of time.

Some will probably not like this; what I saw in the start/beginning of buyback rounds. When you bought back you went right to the 2nd round. Then somebody(s) decided, you have to win against the 1st round losers to advance to the 2nd.

The Tucson Hangover Nationals, 1st round losers were able to buy back directly into the 2nd round. To me that's a win win situation for the track/promoter for $$$, saving time & to the racer.

2BKING

Agree with BKing. You essentially create two first rounds, but it eliminates the additional buy-back round. Places around where I live for the most part do it this way and I see no harm in it.

Our normal bracket races had changed to a re-entry round for a little while. I liked it because you didn't have to beat the same guy twice in a row to get to the 3rd round. Lots of people complained about having to sit so long between 1st and 3rd round. I also think it makes point keeping a little harder and they changed back to everyone going into the second round.

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
Our normal bracket races had changed to a re-entry round for a little while. I liked it because you didn't have to beat the same guy twice in a row to get to the 3rd round. Lots of people complained about having to sit so long between 1st and 3rd round. I also think it makes point keeping a little harder and they changed back to everyone going into the second round.

Most of the tracks I've been to that do buybacks will advance them to 2nd round, but the buybacks are called up first and run separately from the winners. If there are an odd number of buybacks, there would be one racer that could potentially run the same opponent as first round.

Re-entry round works best IF there is specified ROUND money paid.
I.E.> 3rd round winners get $xxx, with the re-entry, everyone who gets to 3rd round has won 2 rounds.

Otherwise it's the same number of pairs down the track.

I also DO NOT like the 1st round winners having to sit, but it is what it is.

quote:

Originally posted by Lenny5160:

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
Our normal bracket races had changed to a re-entry round for a little while. I liked it because you didn't have to beat the same guy twice in a row to get to the 3rd round. Lots of people complained about having to sit so long between 1st and 3rd round. I also think it makes point keeping a little harder and they changed back to everyone going into the second round.

Most of the tracks I've been to that do buybacks will advance them to 2nd round, but the buybacks are called up first and run separately from the winners. If there are an odd number of buybacks, there would be one racer that could potentially run the same opponent as first round.

I could go for that but of the 3 tracks I race at regularly none do any different than what I described.

I like buyback races it is a way to increase car count and should help increase payout with out actually increasing cars.

As for if they go directly into second round or if they have to run each other to go into second round does not matter to me.

As for them gaining points after a Buyback that to does not matter to me as long as the rules are stated and they do not change them during the race or season.

Tell me what the rules are and the payout and lets run them.

As for the time to run them do not think there is much difference between 400 cars and no buybacks and say 300 cars with buybacks.

To me the problem revolves around running cars down the track one pair right after the other. Do that and it will all fall in place.