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DRR Sportsman
Picture of David_D.
posted
What could be causing this? Starter has a new solenoid and has been checked out by a local shop that specializes in starters. They say everything tests great on their bench. I have tried two other starters and they work perfectly. Engine is a 14:1 SBC. I've had this starter on the car for years and have never had a problem until I had the starter hang and keep spinning. I had the solenoid replaced and now it's doing this.

https://youtu.be/82CGnkqnP0w


David Deming
1974 Chevy Nova Custom Hatchback
Horsepower Innovations E85 Carb
 
Posts: 321 | Location: Nampa, ID | Registered: October 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
could the drive be bad and not the solenoid?

ep
 
Posts: 619 | Location: dodging double wides... | Registered: November 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of 67TSCHEVY2
posted Hide Post
what is the voltage at the solenoid when spinning
 
Posts: 1118 | Location: middle georgia | Registered: July 20, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of David_D.
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 67TSCHEVY2:
what is the voltage at the solenoid when spinning


I'll check that today.


David Deming
1974 Chevy Nova Custom Hatchback
Horsepower Innovations E85 Carb
 
Posts: 321 | Location: Nampa, ID | Registered: October 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of David_D.
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by pauley:
could the drive be bad and not the solenoid?

ep


According to the shop, the drive and everything is working as it should, but that's just being bench tested, not on a car under load.


David Deming
1974 Chevy Nova Custom Hatchback
Horsepower Innovations E85 Carb
 
Posts: 321 | Location: Nampa, ID | Registered: October 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of 1320racer
posted Hide Post
Pauley called it, the drive and a normal speed video should prove that out


O'IT!

Offering 1st hand experience and advice based on 3 decades of on track proven performance

"if you guys are so broke dyck you can't buy USA made parts you need to stay the fuc at home that's the bottomline" ----Tim McAmis



 
Posts: 11589 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
I believe you have a voltage drop at the starter solenoid that allows it to stay spinning and not engage the flexplate. If you measure the voltage AT the starter while cranking it needs to be 10.5v minimum. If not it’ll do exactly what is shown in the video. I’d start with a voltage drop test at the rear disconnect if you do not have 10.5v at the starter while cranking.
 
Posts: 1888 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
Here’s what else you can do if you find a voltage drop across the rear disconnect when testing. Move both the battery lead and the lead to the starter to the same terminal, bypassing the rear disconnect. Then test voltage at starter solenoid when cranking
 
Posts: 1888 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 67TSCHEVY2:
what is the voltage at the solenoid when spinning


This^^^


And what Mark said!!!!!!

That is the real way......


A lot of people do not truly understand voltage drop......or how borderline a lot of systems are from normal to no bueno.....


BG
 
Posts: 678 | Location: Florence, SC | Registered: August 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of Clark
posted Hide Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrDlXn-RYcM

Meziere video may help.

I had a recent starter issue with my 414 sbc - 14:1.... I believe it was a powermaster. It kicked back like a mule. Replaced with a House of Payne for $260 and it spins like it has 16 volts...
 
Posts: 67 | Location: Omaha NE | Registered: October 31, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
posted Hide Post
it is the clutch in the drive


opinions are worth what you pay for them
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 1216 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of David_D.
posted Hide Post
Great information from everyone. First thing I'm going to test is the voltage. If that checks out, it will likely be the clutch or drive.


David Deming
1974 Chevy Nova Custom Hatchback
Horsepower Innovations E85 Carb
 
Posts: 321 | Location: Nampa, ID | Registered: October 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Clark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrDlXn-RYcM

Meziere video may help.

I had a recent starter issue with my 414 sbc - 14:1.... I believe it was a powermaster. It kicked back like a mule. Replaced with a House of Payne for $260 and it spins like it has 16 volts...


Excellent video on voltage checking method.

If you notice when he initially checks voltage at the starter while cranking it is at 8.99v and the starter clutch / drive stays engaged. Why? Because the solenoids that they used are designed to operate properly at lower voltages under load. Many starters have solenoids that won’t stay engaged at voltages less than 9.5v under load. Truth !!

Cars with 16v systems won’t experience this starter solenoid problem.

I switched to HOP starters several years ago and they are much better than the ECAE that I was using prior.
 
Posts: 1888 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of David_D.
posted Hide Post
Tested voltage while cranking and it went from 11.66 at the battery to 10.38 at the starter.

The battery was wired on the car years ago with standard 2 AWG battery cable, so I'm going to re-wire with 1/0 fine strand welding cable to help, but that being said, I still don't think the starter is working correctly.

I put my spare on and it cranks great! I'll order a new drive/clutch.

Thanks again for the feedback!


David Deming
1974 Chevy Nova Custom Hatchback
Horsepower Innovations E85 Carb
 
Posts: 321 | Location: Nampa, ID | Registered: October 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by David_D.:
Tested voltage while cranking and it went from 11.66 at the battery to 10.38 at the starter.

The battery was wired on the car years ago with standard 2 AWG battery cable, so I'm going to re-wire with 1/0 fine strand welding cable to help, but that being said, I still don't think the starter is working correctly.

I put my spare on and it cranks great! I'll order a new drive/clutch.

Thanks again for the feedback!


10.38v is good, large cable won't hurt but won't fix the problem, your starter has issues, it's not the battery or wiring.
 
Posts: 1903 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
posted Hide Post
Buy a good drive...from HOP or a good source

I had a brand new Jeg's that was junk and would not spin the engine right out of the box...

Crawling down under there to actually see what is happening when it cranks is a must as you did...
 
Posts: 2469 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
Not the wiring as you were able to verify, good work. There is nothing wrong with 2 ga cable to starter for sbc. I (and others) use same for 14-1 sbc as well. I suggest not replacing this cable and instead purchase a complete new starter from HOP. You’ll be impressed with how much faster his starters crank (higher rated hp than your present starter) on 12v system you presently have. Best upgrade for the money imho.
 
Posts: 1888 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Big Steve
posted Hide Post
Starter drive. You said it yourself, you have had this starter for years which I take it for being an old starter, it works fine with 2 other starters tried. Don't waste you time changing the cable. Replace the drive or buy a new starter
 
Posts: 1921 | Location: On the the dark side now | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of 1320racer
posted Hide Post
This^^^

Buy a new Tilton or HOP starter and while you’re at it a spare drive and solenoid, both of which are in my trailer along with a spare starter. When you travel hundreds of miles to race, you better have spares of most everything. If all you do is race at your local duck pond, spares probably aren’t needed, you’ll go home and order what you need. I’ll bet I have near $20k worth of spare parts in my trailer, not including my 2 spare engines, that I hope I never need on race day. Just bought a $200 throttle stop solenoid for a back up.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1320racer,


O'IT!

Offering 1st hand experience and advice based on 3 decades of on track proven performance

"if you guys are so broke dyck you can't buy USA made parts you need to stay the fuc at home that's the bottomline" ----Tim McAmis



 
Posts: 11589 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Coloradoracer
posted Hide Post
I just love when someone says a starter works fine on the bench...Bench testing a starter for anything other than to see if it spins is pointless. I have a starter that works perfectly when bench tested....but put it in a car and start it, different story. Starter will crank about a half turn then stop. Crank about half turn then stop.....then put it on the bench again and it works fine....Only way to test a starter is under load, in the car....Sucks if it's hard to get to but is what it is......

It's getting rebuilt by the manufacturer and will be kept as a spare....


Mark Goulette
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster
www.livinthedreamracing.com
"Speed kills but it's better than going slow!"
Authorized Amsoil Retailer
 
Posts: 1229 | Location: Back home in Colorado! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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